Hi JC and Group:
PLATT (in a previous post):
><< If you think for one moment that "passion" equals moral
> correctness I can only say, "How wrong can someone be?" No one
> in recent history was more passionate about his moral beliefs than
> Adolf Hitler. Have you ever seen newsreels of him "emoting" about
> the Jews?. Surely you can see from you knowledge of history that
> zeal is no measure of rectitude. >>
JC:
Hmmm... I'm not so sure about this Platt. Was Hitler passionate about what
he was doing? Being able to use passion to manipulate others takes a sort
of cold-hearted logic, eh? I picture Hitler as being very cunning and
manipulative and USING passion, but not being guided by it himself. In
fact, I'd say a man so skilled in the use of passion would be scornful of
it. Completely unswayed by it in any form. What general could
passionately disagree with the Fuhrer? You want to manipulate this guy
with passionate outbursts??? HE'll SHOW you what Passionate
OUTBURSTS LOOK
LIKE YOU BLITHERING IDIOT!!!!!!!!
PLATT:
I see your point. Hitler the consummate actor? It�s possible. Any successful
politician must have acting talent. But I doubt that was Hitler�s primary
modus operandi given the number of witnesses who have written about his
uncontrollable rages. When you have an SS that will shoot anyone you tell
them to, you don�t need to intimidate your generals or others close to you by
pretending to �show what passionate outbursts look like.� But I agree Hitler
probably wasn�t influenced by the passion of others because considering the
penalty (a firing squad) none dared to show it other than in full-throated
support.
JC:
So the face of Nazi control was hard, implacable, logical; passions were
mere tools to be used upon the gullible. They were certainly not guides
to behaviour. How else could these humans turn little children into soap?
Their human passion was dead within them. Killed by a terrible social
logic that gripped their lives.
PLATT:
I don�t deny that Nazi leaders used passion to manipulate the gullible
through propaganda. That�s one reason why I�m so suspicious of passion as
a moral compass. It can be whipped up by skilled propagandists for good or
ill. Would you agree that hate is a human passion that often guides behavior
towards immoral ends?
JC:
Even if zeal is not a guarantee of rectitude, lack of it while living in
an immoral society is a form of immorality, eh?
PLATT:
Agreed. The question is, �What constitutes an immoral society?� Pirsig�s
answer is a society that is anti-intellectual and/or doesn�t open itself to
Dynamic Quality. In Chap. 22 of Lila, Pirsig explains why the Nazi regime
was immoral in MOQ terms:
�This conflict explains the driving force behind Hitler not as an insane search
for power but as an all-consuming glorification of social authority and hatred
of intellectualism.�
Pirsig�s phrase, �all-consuming glorification� sounds like �zeal� to me,
illustrating my point that passion does not a moral person make.
JC:
And a reminder? By MoQ definition, SOM Society is immoral. Intellect
without value is about as immoral as you can get.
PLATT:
Oops, you lost me here. SOM society immoral? I don�t recall Pirsig ever
saying or suggesting that idea. Can you point to a reference? Nor do I
understand how intellect can be without value when Pirsig says the
intellectual level, like all levels, is made up of patterns of value. Indeed, for
Pirsig �the world is composed of nothing but moral value.� Do you disagree
with this basic premise of the MOQ?
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