-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian glendinning
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 2:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MD] Global Warming: Science or Politics?

Hi Case,

(Post-modern I can handle, but "postmodern-cult-of-professionals" you
may have to explain to me ?)

Anyway, responses inserted ...

On 2/16/07, Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ian,
>
> Peer review at minimum is designed to ensure that the editor's deciding
> whether or not to publish an article have the faintest clue what the
article
> is talking about. While certainly politics are involved they are secondary
> considerations and they are academic politics not government politics.
[IG] Agreed.
>
> I confess to not having the time or interest to read the Booth article in
> full but your exchange with Bradford was interesting.
[IG] Thanks for your honesty. Interesting choice of reading though ;-)
Glenn will be pleased.

> Newton just about
> single handedly invented modern science. His reluctance to publish and his
> battles with Hook and Royal Society are legendary. But this is the kind of
> office politics that is inevitable in any human institution.
[IG] Tell me something I didn't know. And when you've done that tell
me something relevant to my point. Inevitable, take note, your word.

>
> Peer review is an academic practice aimed at maintaining the quality of
> academic research. The fact that it on occasion fails is not a
condemnation
> of the practice. Academics are quick to root out and censure mistakes when
> they are found.
[IG] I'm NOT talking about "mistakes" nor am I condemning it. I'm
talking about situations where the balance is closer to rhretoric than
objective logic. Of course I support peer review. But the further it
gets from simple repeatable cases, further from Newtonian mechanics,
the more it depends on rhetoric. Inevitable, as you said.

>
> All you are doing with this kind of postmodernish-cult-of-professionals
talk
> is fuelling the kind of misguided and political condemnation of academia
> that the Platt's of the world relish.
[IG] I'm fully aware of that risk and suffer the slings and arrows
constantly, lest I forget. Which is good. In a community like this
though, I'd expect people to at least see the middle-ground I'm
pointing at, praticularly as it was Pirsig that pointed out to most of
us that there was something valuable underlying these damn subjects
and objects we're all so quick to divide the world up into.
(postmodernish-cult-of-professionals ? you'll have to elaborate.)

>
> The idea that academia should support the publication of any crazy idea
> someone wants to publish is just wrong.
[IG] I'd be much obliged if you could point out where I said "any".
That would be plain wrong. (Stop excluding middles - "forced" to make
a choice between two, I'd make the same one as you, I'm an engineer /
technologist / scientist through and through, but "given" a free
choice, I choose the middle.)

> There are plenty of outlets to
> publish anything anyone wants to say. The internet, at least for the time
> being, is the great equalizer of information access.
[IG] You telling me ? Blogger of this parish ?

> But to receive a
> "Quality" seal of approval from an academic journal, authors must rightly
go
> through a process to at least try to make sure their ideas have merit.
[IG] A "seal of approval" is a social phenomenon, reliant on rhetoric
and social authority ... good when used appropriately, but not
foolproof over intellect, and better understood as a result. That's
largely what Booth's paper is about. Jeez Pirsig was a teacher of
rhetoric !

>
> To abandon this goal to some idealized democratization of intellect is
sheer
> folly.
[IG] Abandon. Jeez where did you dream that. No such words ever cross my
lips.

> Society can eventually learn to love its contrarians but by God they
> ought to have to work for that love. There should be obstacles in the path
> of wackos.
[IG] There are penty, thank god. But equally, thank god, they are only
obstacles, not exclusions. It's not all or nothing. Repeat after me
...

>
> If society is going to be totally open minded there is not telling what
kind
> of nonsense will pass as common sense.
[IG] Totally !?! you extremist. I never used such a word. I'd like to
think no nonsense will ever pass me as common sense, but it might
strike me as worth thinking about.

We're talking quality ... some ideas are better than others, but the
better ones ain't necessarily "totally" right, nor the inferior ones
"totally" wrong for that matter. Is that so hard to accept, or are you
a totalitarian at heart ?

I'm disappointed case.
Regards
Ian

>
> Case
>
>
>
>
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