Hi David (M) You mean any general concept of "that" ? Pointing at something and saying "that" ?
Yes, some sort of definition, some distinction, some identity, some signification, of course. I already agreed with Ron's much looser conception of definition - against which I wouldn't and couldn't argue. There is always some minimal level of definition in any exchange / interaction. But we can start a conversation with a pretty vague definition of something (particularly something hard to define, even ineffable), and move towards better working definition through interaction and dialogue. Depending on thetypes of interaction, we get into the social vs intellectual point I exchanged with Arlo too, when it comes to definitions. If I had any indication Platt had these ideas of definition in his head, rather than the exclusive prior need for the dictionary kind, I'll eat my hat. Ian On 5/2/07, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Ian > > Not sure, is definition of some form implied in any indication of a 'that'? > > David M > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ian glendinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:25 PM > Subject: Re: [MD] Heads or tails? > > > > Hey David, > > > > I'm not knocking definitions, they have pragmatc value for sure, as > > well as their deadly reifying dangers. "Definition is death" is a > > slogan, not my thesis. > > > > I was challenging Platt's assertion, and I quote > > "without [defintion] we couldn't understand one another at all" > > > > Which is fortunately entirely untrue. > > I say fortunately, because if it were true, we'd have no bootstraps. > > The good news is we can communicate with all sorts of allusions and > > metaphors, physical, visual and aural, learning meaning through > > interaction and shared exprience, long before we find useful agreed > > lingusitic conventions and definitions. Agreed ? > > > > Ian > > > > On 4/30/07, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi Ian > >> > >> I see concepts and definitions as always having a double > >> action. They help certain differences to step forward and be > >> seen better and more easilybut therefore pushing others > >> back and so obscuring them. Hence the benefits of > >> being able to see experience in different ways like SOM and > >> MOQ. > >> > >> David M > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "ian glendinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:03 PM > >> Subject: Re: [MD] Heads or tails? > >> > >> > >> > Platt said > >> > > >> >> ... but without [definition] > >> >> we couldn't understand one another at all. > >> > > >> > That is patently untrue. We value and understand many things by shared > >> > aesthetic experience. Definition is something done with hindsight - > >> > for good pragmatic simplification reasons, in context etc ... but it > >> > is not at all "necessary" for understanding. > >> > > >> > It is "always" a compromise, a dumbing down, a devaluing, and is far > >> > from necessary. > >> > > >> > Ian > >> > moq_discuss mailing list > >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> > Archives: > >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >> > > >> > >> moq_discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >> > > moq_discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
