Hi Ian fair enough
DM ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian glendinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Heads or tails? > Hi David (M) > > You mean any general concept of "that" ? > Pointing at something and saying "that" ? > > Yes, some sort of definition, some distinction, some identity, some > signification, of course. I already agreed with Ron's much looser > conception of definition - against which I wouldn't and couldn't > argue. There is always some minimal level of definition in any > exchange / interaction. > > But we can start a conversation with a pretty vague definition of > something (particularly something hard to define, even ineffable), and > move towards better working definition through interaction and > dialogue. Depending on thetypes of interaction, we get into the social > vs intellectual point I exchanged with Arlo too, when it comes to > definitions. > > If I had any indication Platt had these ideas of definition in his > head, rather than the exclusive prior need for the dictionary kind, > I'll eat my hat. > Ian > > On 5/2/07, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi Ian >> >> Not sure, is definition of some form implied in any indication of a >> 'that'? >> >> David M >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "ian glendinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [MD] Heads or tails? >> >> >> > Hey David, >> > >> > I'm not knocking definitions, they have pragmatc value for sure, as >> > well as their deadly reifying dangers. "Definition is death" is a >> > slogan, not my thesis. >> > >> > I was challenging Platt's assertion, and I quote >> > "without [defintion] we couldn't understand one another at all" >> > >> > Which is fortunately entirely untrue. >> > I say fortunately, because if it were true, we'd have no bootstraps. >> > The good news is we can communicate with all sorts of allusions and >> > metaphors, physical, visual and aural, learning meaning through >> > interaction and shared exprience, long before we find useful agreed >> > lingusitic conventions and definitions. Agreed ? >> > >> > Ian >> > >> > On 4/30/07, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Hi Ian >> >> >> >> I see concepts and definitions as always having a double >> >> action. They help certain differences to step forward and be >> >> seen better and more easilybut therefore pushing others >> >> back and so obscuring them. Hence the benefits of >> >> being able to see experience in different ways like SOM and >> >> MOQ. >> >> >> >> David M >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "ian glendinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> To: <[email protected]> >> >> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:03 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [MD] Heads or tails? >> >> >> >> >> >> > Platt said >> >> > >> >> >> ... but without [definition] >> >> >> we couldn't understand one another at all. >> >> > >> >> > That is patently untrue. We value and understand many things by >> >> > shared >> >> > aesthetic experience. Definition is something done with hindsight - >> >> > for good pragmatic simplification reasons, in context etc ... but it >> >> > is not at all "necessary" for understanding. >> >> > >> >> > It is "always" a compromise, a dumbing down, a devaluing, and is far >> >> > from necessary. >> >> > >> >> > Ian >> >> > moq_discuss mailing list >> >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> >> > Archives: >> >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> > >> >> >> >> moq_discuss mailing list >> >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> >> Archives: >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >> > moq_discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > >> >> moq_discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
