[Ian] Nothing supernatural here (or anywhere real for that matter, by my definition), but yes it's the threat to the "sense of autonomy" - I referred to controlling the press, the media, the internet, the text-books, prevailing thought, basis of decision-making, etc. Yes ?
[Krimel] This could easily spark an extreme rant on a total tangent. The consolidation of the media over the past 30 years is one of the biggest threats to western culture ever. It has been advanced by all political parties and the conspiracy theory buff in me traces it to the fear inspired by the Washington Post bringing down the Nixon administration. I am hard press to recall a similar instance of an institution going from white knight to demon in so short of time. Oh wait, there was the Raygun assault on "We the People." The internet was inadvertently set up as an open ended, transparent system and ever since somebody figured this out they have been working to shut it down, close it off and fence it in. [Ian] Humanity is not going to give those up without a (Darwinian) fight. So no physical / technological limits, just limits to humanity's acceptance of an idea (meme). [Krimel] Much as I like the idea I think DM has hinted at the difficulty of memetics. What constitutes a meme? How are they manifested? How would we measure change etc. Several large scale sweeping examples come to mind the differences between democratic institutions in the Americas and in Europe. Or perhaps the religious practices of Catholics on various continents. In both cases you have ideas developing in relative isolation. [Ian] ie We humans will have something to say about when AI "overtakes" us, and that will affect the take-over process. I'm sure Kurzweil's dates are simply "provocative". [Krimel] That basic need to feel special is a big one. Reminds me of the hoopla over ape language research, on the other end of the spectrum. Many argued that despite the accomplishments of Lana, Washoe, even Nim Chimpsky, whatever they were doing, was not what we do. They invoked everything from pigeons modeling similar behavior on one side to Clever Hans phenomena from the semiotic camp. But the underlying theme of it all was humans are special. Whether the threat to our "specialness" comes from those lower than us or those potentially higher than us, it is still perceived as a threat. The response is predictable. Kurzweil claims it will be an ongoing source of tension well beyond the point where AIs are routinely passing Turing tests. [Ian] (BTW to me the A in AI stands for "alternative" - nothing real is "artificial".) [Krimel] Nice one, I'd like to see it catch on! moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
