Quoting Ron Kulp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > [Ron] > Has anyone else connected/compared Emergence with MOQ? I do know there > are those who object > to the idea, I find it interesting though that Pirsigs levels can be > accepted although > the idea of emergence, particularly as it applies to consciousness is in > hot debate. > > > "Regarding strong emergence, Mark A. Bedau observes: > > "Although strong emergence is logically possible, it is uncomfortably > like magic. How does an irreducible but supervenient downward causal > power arise, since by definition it cannot be due to the aggregation of > the micro-level potentialities? Such causal powers would be quite unlike > anything within our scientific ken. This not only indicates how they > will discomfort reasonable forms of materialism. Their mysteriousness > will only heighten the traditional worry that emergence entails > illegitimately getting something from nothing."(Bedau 1997)
Hi Ron, This quote (above) supports my view that "emergent" means "Oops" or "We don't know." Knowledge in the science world depends on finding specific causes for specific events. The following quote you offered also supports my view: > "The ability to reduce everything to simple fundamental laws does not > imply the ability to start from those laws and reconstruct the > universe..The constructionist hypothesis breaks down when confronted > with the twin difficulties of scale and complexity. At each level of > complexity entirely new properties appear. Psychology is not applied > biology, nor is biology applied chemistry. We can now see that the whole > becomes not merely more, but very different from the sum of its > parts."(Anderson 1972)-wiki So I agree with your "oops" and "aha" view. As for the MOQ being "emergent" in the scientific sense, it's not. The cause for development of the various levels in the MOQ is clearly and specifically identified -- DQ. No such creative force is admitted by our scientific-minded friends. That's just another reason why the MOQ appeals to me. It takes the mystery out of why and how we got here. Regards, Platt ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
