[SA previously]
> > Where does Pirsig say SOM is locked into
science, that science > can't have a different
mindset, a different approach?
[Platt quotes Lila]
> "Phaedrus thought that of the two loads of students,
> those who study only
> subject-object science and those who study only
> meditative mysticism, it would be
> the mystic students who would get off the stove
> first." (Lila, 9)
EXACTLY!!!!! Pirsig says here, "...those who
study only subject-object science..."
"...subject-object science..." "...subject-object..."
Pirsig here is using subject-object as an adjective
describing a kind of science. Science with a MOQ
approach would clarify and understand what science
finds much better than a SOM science.
[Platt]
> The social sciences are hardly science in the sense
> of being logical positivists like physicists,
chemists and biologists.
Yes, and logical positivists, guess what Platt,
are philosophers describing what they see, with
thought as to what science is doing. Science does,
and these logical positivists are philosophers trying
to say what science does. MOQ philosophers would say
what science does, better.
[Platt]
> Nowhere have I found that SOM lacks thought.
No, but SOM says thought is here, and objects over
there. Ham's thesis is SOM. Thoughts and objects in
SOM corrupt each other, and have nothing to do with
each other. They are separated, and always to be
pushed away into two different worlds. This is why
SOM science rejects thought and values. SOM science
rejects the S part, and only finds the O part to be of
value and to be truthful. MOQ finds S and O valuable.
> > [Platt]
> > > Inorganic vs. biological levels.
[SA previously]
> > Inorganic vs. biological levels, ok, your
> > avoiding my questions. Where does the MOQ mention
> > death vs. life?
[Platt quotes Lila and then comments]
> "Biology beat death billions of years ago." (Lila,
> 21) I wonder why it's necessary for me to do your
research for you.
Oh... so the body lives forever now. I thought
you said the body dies and the spirit lives forever.
> [Platt]
> I know what exclusive means, but I don't know how
that differs from > perspectives. A perspective can
be exclusive, e.g. a black and white > perspective
about the war against terrorism in Iraq.
Yes, I agree perspectives can be, '...e.g. a black
and white perspective, etc..." Yet, perspective also
includes "beauty is in the eye of the beholder",
exclusive is locked into 'black or white no gray'.
[SA previously]
> SOM has a much longer history than just science.
> > SOM thought up science. It is now found to be too
> > rigid of a philosophy to explain what what many
> have been sweeping under the rug. The MOQ enhances
SOM
> > with a more encompassing perspective. Don't be
> rigid about science. It has been the philosophy
called
> SOM that has been leading science. The MOQ can help
> > science understand more of the data science has
found.
[Platt]
> Yes. Point well taken.
Ok, then we agree up above further, too, I guess.
> [SA quoted Lila]
> > "...ultimate Quality isn't... definable..."
> What is Quality? That can be answered staticly, but
> don't forget about dynamic quality which leaves the
> question still ultimately unanswered/undefined.
> > > > [Platt]
DQ can't be static, but a description of it can.
There's a difference
between the egg you can eat and the egg on a menu.
Right, dq is not intellectual, thus, dq is not
definable and can't be explained intellectually, so,
us typing what dq is - is not dq. I agree with you
here. We can finger point at the moon all day and
night, and still not choke the full-meaning out of dq.
Dq stays innocent.
woods,
SA
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