Thanks for this interesting discussion, Tim. I will now respectfully, find the quote about how the correlation between fluency and comprhension falls to near zero after the very beginning stages of reading. It is in my book. It is cited in Stahl's chapter in the NRP and I will reformat it and post it.
Also, Tim-- I am not saying that kids who read laboriously are not hindered by the slow, word by word reading. I think where we would diverge in our approaches is I would say, model, allow the kid to do lots of reading but do NOT let the child for one second think it is about speed and even speed and intonation. I think the end result is the same-- in terms of how kids sound. The difference is in the way to get there and how they come to view reading. I don't think we totally disagree. I will now respectfully find the quote that says the correlation between fluency and comprehension drops to near zero. Thanks for posting, Tim. On Sunday, July 8, 2007, at 06:27 AM, RASINSKI, TIMOTHY wrote: > I am going to jump in and share my own thoughts. I agree that > fluency > may be a craze, and may be passing phase, especially if it is nothing > more than teaching kids to read fast and faster. > > However, reading fluency and comprehension are strongly connected. > When > children read words automatically or effortlessly they can use their > good brain to make sense of what they read -- not struggle to read the > words. Try reading a poem from Shel Silverstein's Runny Babbit and you > will probably find yourself spending more effort figuring out the words > and less attention is place on making meaning. This is what I think so > many of our children go through. They can read the words, but so > haltingly that they are unable to pay much attention to meaning. > > And, when students read text with appropriate expression, phrasing, > emphasis, pausing and all the other prosodic cues that linguists talk > about they are giving evidence that the are making meaning with their > voice. > > I am going to have to respectfully disagree with the comment that there > is a zero correlation between fluency and comprehension beyond first > grade. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that fluency is a huge > concern with our struggling readers through high school. I have a > study in the Journal of Adolescent and Adult Literacy where we showed a > significant and substantial correlation between fluency and 9th > graders' > (from an urban school district) performance on Ohio's High School > Graduation Test. I now have study that I sent for review where we > found > a strong correlation between fluency and comprehension for 3rd, 5th, > and > 7th graders in Omaha. Moreover, the magnitude of the correlation did > not decrease as the students got older -- it remained remarkably high > through the grades. > > Correlation is not causation. But we are now coming out with work that > shows that appropriate instruction in fluency can lead to improvements > (sometime breathtaking) in comprehension and overall reading > achievement > for students in 4th grade through high school (check out The Reading > Teacher, Oct 2004; Reading Psychology, fall 2007 for two studies that > have demonstrated these gains). > > David Liben in Vermont has been doing some excellent work that has > shown > similar effects among older high school students. > > I guess I've said enough for now. Fluency can be a troubling concept > -- I agree; but please don't decide that it is worthless because of the > way some experts recommend it be taught. If done appropriately, I > think (I know from my own clinical and classroom work) that it can be > life saver for many students. > > > Timothy Rasinski, Ph.D. > Reading and Writing Center > 404 White Hall > Kent State University > Kent, OH 44242 > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Phone: 330-672-0649 > Cell: 330-962-6251 > Fax: 330-672-2025 > Informational website: www.timrasinski.com > Professional Development DVD: http://www.roadtocomprehension.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zoe Jackson > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 8:35 PM > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Repeated Readings for Fluency - Question for Tim > > Your third paragraph sounds so sensible to me. I've had a gut feeling > recently that fluency is the present education craze, but a passing > phase. It is an easy improvement to be able to measure, but does it > actually develop comprehension skills. Thanks for your knowledgeable > input. > Zoe > On Saturday, July 7, 2007, at 09:10 PM, elaine garan wrote: > >> I'm not Tim, but I'll jump in here with a thought that might put your >> experience in a different perspective. >> >> Do you think it's possible that when he's reading aloud, he's so >> focused on how he sounds that he isn't thinking about what he's >> reading? This happens to me. When I'm reading in front of an audience, >> very often, I have no idea of what I've read. Maybe this is a sign > that >> he's a mature reader. How often do any of us read aloud? How often do >> we worry about how fluently we read or how we sound? And when we do >> worry about that, what happens to our comprehension? Most of us do > most >> of our reading silently. >> >> Beyond beginning reading, beyond first grade, there is a zero >> correlation between fluency and comprehension. In fact, fluency (in >> terms of a focus on wpm and even prosody) can actually interfere with >> comprehension because the reader is thinking about that performance >> aspect instead of meaning, especially if he or she is being timed. . >> The research supports that. So maybe this boy is a fluent as he needs >> to be. And if he's reading silently with comprehension, then why worry >> about how he sounds when he reads aloud since most of mature reading >> and even reading for tests is silent anyway? >> >> >> On Saturday, July 7, 2007, at 05:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> Yes he can. When he reads aloud he rereads constantly and has hardly >>> any >>> comprehension. If I ask him to read a page silently and tell me what >>> it's about >>> he can. He's a mystery. >>> >>> Sue >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************** See what's free at >>> http://www.aol.com. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mosaic mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ >>> mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >>> >>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mosaic mailing list >> [email protected] >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ >> mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > [email protected] > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ > mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > [email protected] > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ > mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > _______________________________________________ Mosaic mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. 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