On 6/22/03 10:49 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is my contention that regular students are capable of doing AP math, and > that even fairly average regular students in Minneapolis can do well in > courses that meet or exceed minimum requirements for AP certificate. Can I > name any? You betcha. Have you heard of a high school math teacher in the Los > Angeles Public Schools named Jaime Escalante?
Uh, yeah. He's the guy that the movie "Stand and Deliver" was about and last time I checked, Hollywood made movies about exceptional stories, not common occurrences. I have another question for Doug. It's kind of long, so bear with me. In your earlier post, you talked about how colleges in MN "have stopped awarding credit for Algebra and Geometry that are prerequisites for Trigonometry, Calculus, and higher level courses" Then you talked about how regular students should be able to do AP-level math because back in South Washington County in the 1970's, their math courses for general students were supposed to be the same as the AP-level classes in St. Paul. Now, here's my question: what were those general math classes back at South Washington? Because AP-level math in MPS today is not algebra, geometry or even trigonometry. It's calculus. That's what AP-level math was at Minneapolis North when I attended, though I didn't take it. If I recall correctly, I took geometry in 9th grade, algebra in 10th grade, trigonometry in 11th grade and pre-calc my senior year. But that was mostly because of my Summatech requirements. Most kids only took two years of math, which I do think is not enough math, but I don't think that was exclusive to MPS. So, are you saying that you expect all students in MPS should take calculus? And if so, why? Don't get me wrong, I think it would be awesome if more MPS students took calculus, but I'm not sure it should be required. How many teachers in our state are even qualified to teach calculus, let alone MPS? > In a message dated 6/19/2003 8:44:32 AM Central Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > "I believe that the chemistry and biology 1001 courses have also become > non-credit courses. The reason that students who attend the public college > system in MN no longer get credit for taking those courses in college is > that courses with about the same content are offered to students in Minnesota > High Schools, including high schools without accredited AP and IB programs." > > "And you would be wrong, Doug." [end of quote] > > Here you set up a straw man by quoting me out of context -- You deleted 2 > sentences in the first half of the paragraph.-- Then you put words in my mouth > in support of your contention that I am wrong to say that chem and bio 1001 > courses are non-credit. And you did not actually debate the point that I made > in the paragraph from which your quote originated. This is what you snipped > out: > > In a message dated 6/19/2003 5:37:24 AM Central Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > "The MN state college system (community colleges, state colleges, technical > colleges, and the U of M) have stopped awarding credit for Algebra and > Geometry that are prerequisites for Trigonometry, Calculus, and higher level > courses. The college-level English composition courses generally known as > "Freshman English" recently became non-credit courses." [end quote] Poor Doug. He gets pointed out as plain wrong about introductory chemistry and biology being non-credit classes in college, so he has to try and divert attention from his mistake by accusing me of all kinds of shenanigans about quoting him out of context when all I really was doing was snipping out the stuff that I wasn't responding to, just like our List Manager encourages. And can anyone explain how exactly I would put words in Doug's mouth by quoting him? What exactly does that mean, that it's somehow my fault that Doug didn't bother to research his position before making an incorrect claim and presenting it as fact? If so, I'm sorry, Doug. I'll try to do better not to put words in your mouth again. > 'Freshman English' is a required non-credit course for just about everyone > seeking a 2 or 4 year degree at the U of MN and the Minneapolis Community > College. You can no longer get credit for testing out of or taking Algebra > and Geometry, which remain prerequisites for required courses in some degree > programs (and some vocational certificate programs) and which once fully > satisfied one category of core curriculum requirements at the College of > Liberal Arts at the U of M. The same applies to the first year of classes > that begin at the introductory level in Foreign languages, such as French and > Spanish, which are now non-credit. I know this because I recently considered > going back to school to get an Associate Degree through the Minneapolis > Community and Technical College and also checked out courses offered through > the U of M's College of Liberal Arts. If you say so. I know I never took any Freshman English class when I was at the U, credit or non-credit, but maybe things changed when they switched to the semester system. I was told by my advisor that I had "met requirements" for Engl 1001, but I can't recall if that was due to my ACT score or my coursework at Minneapolis North. I do recall that the U largely did away with the freshman composition class while I was there, saying that there would be enough writing practice from other course requirements. Personally, I thought that was a rather dumb move since the number of people who can write coherently appears to be shrinking by the day. One thing I'm confused about - just what is a "required non-credit course" supposed to be? How does a college require a class for a degree, but not give credit for it? Do you mean a prerequisite? Because I never heard of anyone taking non-credit courses at the U unless they were either making up a prereq that they didn't have from high school or they were auditing a class rather than take it for a grade. Tuition was damned expensive enough when I was going there - I can't imagine anyone taking non-credit classes there now. And given the rising number of applications at the U, I find it hard to believe they would even accept students that haven't met all the prereqs. Last I heard, they accepted some 5,000 or so early-admissions applicants out of some 15-20,000 that applied. The U of a generation ago where you could show up the day before classes started and apply are LONG gone. Mark Snyder Windom Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
