My friend, Wizard, who apparently erred slightly in suggesting that coffee shops are male territory (last para), may be right about bars being male, but as for the coffee shops, smokers need not smoke in any establishment for Wizard to join her friends and talk babies and things. Those that ban smoking aren't off limits to smokers the way smoking establishments are off limits for most nonsmokers.
Andy Driscoll Saint Paul -- on 5/8/04 12:30 PM, WizardMarks wrote: > Jeremy Wieland wrote: > >> For my money, Minneapolis is still hung up on the adage, "whatever isn't >> mandatory is prohibited." Let a couple dozen bars stay open to smokers, ban >> it in the rest. Allow a little unhealthy freedom. >> > WM: I don't go to bars. I don't like bars. Bars, for females no matter > what age, are so ambiently and otherwise "male territory" that you can > smell it in the air, even if you're a smoker. I do, however, like coffee > shops which serve a standard set of items and are open from early to > late. I like the ones which have smoking and non-smoking sections. > > I choose to go to coffee shops and restaurants that serve both smokers > and non-smokers because then I can hang with all my friends and > acquaintances, pick up on the important neighborhood issues--new babies, > folks who are dying, kids going to school, grandbabies, how various > projects the neighborhood has initiated are going, what the police are > up to, what the gangs are up to, all that stuff. I don't insist that > every coffee shop be smoking or non, but I would like every neighborhood > to have at least one that's mixed. > > I'd love it if they were from different cultures, except that my > experience has been that for some cultures, coffee shops are male > territories. Such is life. > > WizardMarks, Central > >> >> >> >> Jeremy Wieland >> Northeast >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of Mike Skoglund >> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:24 AM >> To: 'Minneapolis Issues' >> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Smoking ban in Minneapolis >> >> Quoting Laura Waterman Wittstock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >>> On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 04:12 PM, WizardMarks wrote: >>> >>>> Jeremy Wieland wrote: >>>> >>>>> Given that there are smokers, and that smokers seek out smoking >>>>> environments, why not either pass an "all or nothing" ordinance, or >>>>> provide >>>>> for a finite number of "smoking establishments." >>>>> >>> >>>> WM: What about established restaurants whose business, built up over a >>>> couple of generations from virtually nothing to a restaurant that >>>> supports a family and provides 50+ jobs to the community. >>>> >>>> WizardMarks, Central >>>> >>> All smoking or some smoking in places where the public is served both >>> expose workers to environmental smoke, a liability for the owner and a >>> health risk for the workers. >>> >> [...] >> >> Is anyone aware of law or precedent in Minnesota suggesting business >> owners are liable for injuries to employees or patrons caused by second- >> hand smoke? This seems like a pretty significant consideration. >> >> For that matter, given all the arguments that are flying around, are >> there definitive answers on (1) health risks of second-hand smoke; or >> (2) the effect of a smoking ban on various businesses. >> >> I've always assumed that second-hand smoke has some sort of dangerous >> effect, but I don't know for sure. I'd feel more comfortable advocating >> a change in law based on cancer risks than stinky overcoats. >> >> Regarding the second point, there seems to be a lot of controversy about >> this. Living in NYNY, the Mayor has argued that business is up since the >> ban went into effect, but others have responded that business in bars and >> restaurants is down. >> >> E.g.: http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/public/press04/pr031-0329.html >> http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/18109.htm >> http://www.washblade.com/2004/4-23/view/columns/smokescreen.cfm >> http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/ny-bc-ct--smokingban0429apr28,0,1561558. >> story?coll=nyc-regionhome-headlines >> >> If the health problems are that serious (which should go to the liability >> issue) that would obviously outweigh the economic harm. But if these >> issues are murky, I think there should be much more discussion before the >> city considers a ban. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mike Skoglund // Financial District NYNY // Bancroft MPLS >> REMINDERS: >> 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. >> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. >> >> For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html >> For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract >> ________________________________ >> >> Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy >> Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls >> >> REMINDERS: >> 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. >> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. >> >> For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html >> For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract >> ________________________________ >> >> Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy >> Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls >> > > > REMINDERS: > 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > ________________________________ > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
