The writer seems to have no problem with non-smokers having no choice in bars. Let them all stay home. What rights do the 80% have? Apparently none. What rights do smokers and tobacco companies have? Apparently, all. Let the minority kick around the majority. A tyranny of the minority.
I want the ban because I and a lot of other people would like to go to bars. I like bars. I don't like smoke. If I try a smoking bar, it's not long before the smoke drives me out. The writer here would say, Fine, go home. Perhaps add, bars are by their very nature smoky; smoke and booze go together, like bribes and politicians. Nothing like claiming what you want is in the very nature of things, impossible to change. I suspect the pro-smokers hope this discussion just blows over and we sink back into smoky bars forever, and that non-smokers decline into hopelessness. Why not go for the whole enchilada, and dismiss the opposition with a snide butt-kicking jeer? --David Shove roseville On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, gemgram wrote: > I have been waiting for an appeal of my "ban" from the List, before > continuing to post, but just could not resist Eddie Felien's post. I guess > when you are addicted it truly is hard to resist temptation. > > Eddie should consider not putting his butt where someone is already swinging > his or her foot. I wonder if Eddie, and others so up on smoking bans in > bars, have ever thought to stop going into the bars where smoking is > allowed? I do not remember reading in the Southside Pride, or on the > Minneapolis Issues, where Eddie Felien was forcibly dragged into a bar > against his will and then made to breathe "Second Hand" smoke. Not having > read either for a while, I have maybe missed something? > > Recently some friends and I went into Mac's Bar, (best deal on a steak in > town) to have a steak and a diet coke or scotch as we might choose. We > found the bar was really smoky, because it was already filled with (can I > say it in public) SMOKERS. We turned right around and left to go to a > different restaurant and bar. Amazing how easy that worked. We simply chose > to put our butts somewhere where there was not already a "foot swinging". > > I was amused by the discussion of talks with Jesus and God. I am told Jesus > once instructed us that "he without sin throw the first stone". Perhaps in > this situation it might be "he without addiction, habit, or desire, throw > the first 'Ban'." I seem to remember Mr. Felien advocating for changing the > ban on cannabis farming. I also wonder how many others enjoy coffee; > sugared, or caffinated, and carbonated pop; or offensive music (rap at any > sound level is offensive to me, and may cause violent behavior in some); > etc. Such things might harm those who choose to use them, and damage others > from simply being around the users. Personally, however, I have problems > with the government banning any of these things. How would some of the ban > supporters feel if it were decreed from the 'Mount City Hall' that all > restaurant owners MUST allow smoking, since it is a legal substance? Same > powers of government and license, I would think? > > So Eddie and others who do not like smoky bars, why don't you just CHOOSE to > stay the hell out of them. Let's control smoking in public spaces so Eddie > does not have to breathe it in a public place. And who ever is forcing > Eddie to breathe it, please stop! If the City owns a bar, or if one exists > in an area where you do not have to go through doors to get into it, then I > will fully support a ban in such an establishment. Let's even enforce a ban > on drinking in public places. Heck, I personally would even support a total > ban on tobacco, before I would support a ban on a legal substance and legal > activity within a privately owned establishment. > > If you do not like smoking Eddie, just STOP doing it. A lot of us have done > that. And stop associating with those who do, and stop going into > businesses that allow smoking tobacco. Wow, personal freedom and choice, > what a concept! Of course some people just sometime wake up in a smoking > bar. Without any memory of how they got there! I only used that excuse > once with my wife. Did not work that time either, so I would advise against > it. > > So Eddie, please stop backing into other people's feet on purpose, it takes > the shine off of someone's shoe. > > Jim Graham, > Minneapolis' Sixth Ward > > REMINDERS: > 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL > PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > ________________________________ > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
