Hi, Elizabeth. My approach is very similar to what you have described.
Comparing your approach with John's, it seems to me that both approaches
achieve largely the same results - easily sets up multiple streams of
tasks with linear dependency (ie tasks must be done in order), allows
completed tasks to be removed from the active listing, allows you to
execute tasks out of order if you want, easy to see the next task, easy
to get a view of just the next task in each series with no extra lines
for tasks that aren't immediately actionable, but easy to get a view of
those other pending (future) tasks. I love the fact that MLO supports
both of these approaches and that everyone canselectthe approach that
most comfortable, or invent a new one.
Trading off between these two approaches, I find that John's approach
has one significant advantage: from a view that shows next actions for
several different streams, you can view the hidden future tasks of any
stream by just hovering the (mouse) pointer over the relevant line in
the view. By contrast, the approach you described would require that the
tab containing the next actions view would have synchronized task
selection with the first tab, then you would doubleclick the relevant
line in the view to switch to an all-tasks view showing the line and its
neighbors, then double-click again to switch back. While managable, this
is definitely more complex that John's process.
Offsetting this advantage are several disadvantages to my way of
thinking, including a much greater amount of editing required whenever a
subtask is completed, loss of nonlinear dependencies (eg two tasks that
run in parallel; also one task that can start whenever both predecessor
tasks (running in parallel) have completed. Also loss of any history of
completed subtasks and when each one was completed.
-Dwight
MLO Betazoid on Windows, Cloud and Android SGN2
On 8/22/2015 7:12 PM, Elizabeth Lindsay wrote:
That is an interesting approach. I personally would find it
cumbersome to keep editing the same item, especially to insert an
unplanned (but now identified) task in the middle of the list.
Instead, I use the vertical approach, tag the project/folder as
complete in order, and use a view of only active items so only the
next action is shown (not taking up too much room).
If I'm feeling I need to focus on that project and I need to see the
whole list, I change the view and zoom in to just that project.
I find keeping sub-tasks separate from each other allows me the full
flexibility of adding dependencies. For example, maybe it is mostly
linear, but there are a few where I can pick and choose the order in
the middle, but the last few tasks can't be done until all the middle
ones are done.
Good luck!
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 8:10:20 AM UTC-5, John Smith wrote:
Hello
I want to re-open this topic.
After some months of using MLO, I am now in the habit of writing
multiple tasks on one line - which I separate with " ==> ".
I normally use this for things that need doing a particular
order... or sometimes it's just a way of inspiring me to START a
project by defining something small to get started with.
I use CAPITALS for major projects (btw, is there really no way to
get MLO to capitalise MLO-level "Project" names automatically? I
already get it to change colour...)
e.g. "HOUSE NOW CLEAN ==> clean bedroom ==> hoover stairs ==>
bathroom (hoover+mirrors) ==> hoover hallway ==> clear/hoover
main room."
Now here's the why I like doing this:
a) I can see my /first /task "clean bedroom" automatically, AND
b) I'm not wasting vertical screen space with a long list of stuff
which I'm not ready to process yet (i.e. I *know* it's there but
I'm not interested in it right now) AND
c) If I do want to see the other tasks/sub-task, then all I need
to do is just hover with my mouse and all the hidden text appears
with a simple mouse-over.
d) Then, as soon as I have completed something (quite possibly
/not /in the rigid order I had previous suggested to myself !)
it's simply a matter of clicking on the line at the relevant spot
and hitting the delete key a few times. (or of in doubt anywhere
on the line in question hit F2)
This stricks me as entirely brilliant !
To re-cap in this way:
i) I can see what I need to do next (usually the first one OR TWO
are in fact visible...)
ii) The view is extremely compact - allowing multiple projects to
be visible on my screen at once
iii) It's trivial to see ALL the tasks within any project at once
(not just the /first /one - as some MLO reports do... if you can
remember how to set them up... plus set up hotkeys to get at them
etc etc... All very fiddly in my experience!)
In fact to be completely honest I'm not even using the "Project"
function at all ! I may be missing something but it doesnt bring
any value to me at present.
What I am using however is /indentations/ - and I am doing so _a
lot_! I use it to indicate sub-tasks of tasks. You see for me it's
quite rare that my mind naturally even *thinks* in terms of
"Projects" (i.e. GTD theory not withstanding, things have to be
genuinely quite large projects before I naturally want to think
about them in that way!).
There is a further benefit which is more subtle... which is being
a very visual kinda guy I find it helfpul to *visually*
distinguish one project from another. [ASIDE: One of the most
productive people I know still uses pen and paper. Lots of written
lists. She like the visual side - the shapes of the lists & text
etc.]
i.e. When you write on paper this happens automatically of course,
but digitally all the shapes & mental photos of everything are
necessarily leaping around as you edit. So I like to create shapes
using indentations and colours etc. So now, in this way when I
think of my "Clean house" project in my minds eye I see a list of
stuff all on one line. I can see visually that these items are all
tightly bound to each other. And also I recognise it visually when
I browse past it WITHOUT READING it! Weird, I concede but true.
Now here's downside:
a) Ticking off is less easy. But I personally don't want to see
what I've ticked off, nope not ever again - pure clutter! So dont
care about that. In some instances this can psychologically
slightly help me try to do all the tasks at once rather then feel
good about half completed tasks.
b) Changing order of tasks is less easy. Yes that can be a problem
- but only sometimes...
[And yes, for this reason I do sometimes wish to convert
horizontal into vertical lists - see below]
Ultimately it's a trade-off. You see, it slightly subtle but I
like /*compact* /views and to me, and to me the ability to see on
any given row... all my tasks within that project ... JUST with a
simply mouse over, rather than with 3 actions is worth it.
These three task being:
1. select the row
2. cursor right [to see all the hidden rows]
3. cursor left [to hid all the hidden rows again]
Now, the big problem for me is that whenever I change my mind and
I want to convert a long row into a vertical list of shorter tasks
(i.e. multiple rows), MLO makes this a nightmare! [WHY SO HARD!!]
I sometimes use the Control/D key and edit but that is pretty
painful and on balance I regard this as a serious omission by MLO.
To get clear, what MLO needs to do is for any given row: allow you
to edit the text; get your cursor at the place you require; and
hit [whatever hotkeys] and thereby get the row to divide i.e.
"break" the line into two a that point. This would allow the user
to go through a long line breaking it into a number of short lines
very quickly & easily.
Just like editing text normally in fact!
And it would also be helpful to me to be able to do the
reverse.i.e. To get to the end of a row's text and when I hit
Delete, then the row below gets "sucked up" to join the current
row. i.e. it the text is appended, and any child tasks come with it.
Btw, don't get me wrong I do spend most of my life using cursors &
hotkeys, rather than mouse. But over time subtle ergomic
differences emerge. To me using the arrow keys to think about
things feels 'more clunky' and moreover selecting text then causes
a change of colour (white text on pale-ish blue for me - which is
fractionally harder to read as well - yes it can be changed [I
just have!] but remember most users won't bother...)
SUGGESTION:
I suggest that a mouse-over on text should 'pop' not just the
longer/hitten part of the text like it does at present, but also
should pop all hidden the subtasks below that task (I suggest
probably only just showing the one level below it...) i.e. I am
requesting that a mouseover on a task's name field should in
effect cause a popup that is rather like hitting the little green
sideways triangle on and off (when you mouse-off) at the start of
a row.
I concede that some people may well find this a bit disruptive
because as your mouse moves around the screen, too much might then
be moving... however remember I'm NOT asking for all the tasks
below it on the screen to be actually moved down the screen (as
happens when you do a real clicking of little green triangle (or
arrow right/left), instead I'm asking for the texts top "pop-up"
in a temporary popup window 'floating' *above* the text below it.
And that only when you click on text in this popup because you
want to edit it, only then should you be taken into the formal
edit mode - at the place in the text where you clicked of course -
and only then should all the rows below it moved down.
Btw, there is one very slightly annoying thing about the (in many
ways brilliant) MLO interface, and that is that *during* the
mouseover that pops up when the task decription is longer than the
space visible in the row, if without clicking on the text, you try
to move the mouse over to the right, to the place in the text
where you want to edit... the pop-up immediately /disappears /as
soon as you go too far to the right !
(i.e. it disappears the instant that you go beyond the area of the
text box below it). Whereas what I want to do is: When I see a
popup showing longer lines, if as I move the mouse to the right I
do manage to keep my mouse over that popup, I want the pop instead
of disappearing to remain visible on the screen if I left-click it
I want to be taken to start editing the text at that exact place
in the text.
i.e. It's counter-intuitive to be shown some text which you cant
just click on and edit at that place.
BTW, I do also find it annoying that if I click on the area of the
text field where it does not be full enough of text at that point,
(i.e. if you left-click at the text but miss the actual text),
then the editing window fails to open up like it does if you do
manage to hit any actual text. So I find myself hitting F2 a lot
rather than just left-clicking on what I want to edit.
Enough
J
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 5:32:55 PM UTC+1, Dwight Arthur wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 5:53:48 AM UTC-4, J Smith wrote:
<...>Personally I use this for:
A) Tasks that are *best* done consecutively immediately
after each other
e.g."Pick up tap from hardware store ==> go to stationers
for pen & paper ==> supermarket ==> post letter on way home"
B) I also use this to write up things that MUST be done in
that particular sequence but not necessarily immediately
after each other:
e.g. "Install new locks ==> Get new keys cut ==> give new
keys to Fred ==> Tell George Fred has new key"<...>
Hi, John. I use this syntax where I have multiple steps that
must be done as one. For example
Get Clippers>Get rope>prune and tie trees
If I get interrupted after getting the clippers and don't get
back to this tilltomorrow, I will need to restart at the top.
There is no possibility of partial completion. So I'm
comfortable with making it a single task.In both of the
examples you gave here is a possibility of getting interrupted
in the middle and later (maybe much later) needing to pick up
and finish. I would want separate tasks. I would still enter
it quickly. For example
measure for blinds>order blinds>buy wall anchors>did blinds
arrive yet?>install blinds
would get entered into the Rapid Task Entry window (with parse
and multiple entry enabled) as
Install Blinds -p -o
measure for blinds
order blinds
buy wall anchors
did blinds arrive yet? @waiting
for readers less familiar with RTE I will mention that this
creates a project with five subtasks and "complete tasks in
order" turned on. If I mark tasks complete when I finish them,
the next action will always be clear,After the last (waiting)
task is completed, the project name (install blinds) becomes
the next action. I believe that all of the advantages you
mentioned apply, with the additional advantages that it's easy
to track partial completion and resume after an interruption,
it's easy to add a task to the middle when you need to, and
you don't have to worry about splitting lines.
-Dwight
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