@Elizabeth Yes I do use both systems. But particularly for very simple things visibility is more important than tickoff & sort order change. e.g. I might just bash in "Mow lawn ==> phone sister ==> do ironing" Actually in short titles editing is pretty trivial: Lift click where you want and hit delete X times! Like I say, longer titles are (for no good reason) much more of a pain.
@Dwight Yes as usual you nailed it! It's the hovering that is so much faster than clunky multiple key strokes. What would be really cool would be a mouse-over view that allowed you to drag and drop the items along a horizontal line. The line should wrap if it got too long. General comment Gads! It's so tempting to write one own system... the ergonomic fine issues are crucial. No wonder that there are so many systems out there. The mystery is why their usability is so rubbish. @MajorBillion I am fairly fluent with the mindmap from MindJet called MindManager (which is rather expensive, rather bloated) and used it a lot before using MLO. How does iMindQ compare - did you try it? I found it irritating for really large lists of stuff particularly moving from large project to large project is messy on the screen. Also just seeing the Next task (or two) is effectively impossible. Interestingly I also found that I hated the strict hierarchy that it forces you put your thinking in. On Sunday, August 23, 2015 at 4:12:49 AM UTC+1, Dwight Arthur wrote: > > Hi, Elizabeth. My approach is very similar to what you have described. > Comparing your approach with John's, it seems to me that both approaches > achieve largely the same results - easily sets up multiple streams of tasks > with linear dependency (ie tasks must be done in order), allows completed > tasks to be removed from the active listing, allows you to execute tasks > out of order if you want, easy to see the next task, easy to get a view of > just the next task in each series with no extra lines for tasks that aren't > immediately actionable, but easy to get a view of those other pending > (future) tasks. I love the fact that MLO supports both of these approaches > and that everyone canselectthe approach that most comfortable, or invent a > new one. > > Trading off between these two approaches, I find that John's approach has > one significant advantage: from a view that shows next actions for several > different streams, you can view the hidden future tasks of any stream by > just hovering the (mouse) pointer over the relevant line in the view. By > contrast, the approach you described would require that the tab containing > the next actions view would have synchronized task selection with the first > tab, then you would doubleclick the relevant line in the view to switch to > an all-tasks view showing the line and its neighbors, then double-click > again to switch back. While managable, this is definitely more complex that > John's process. > > Offsetting this advantage are several disadvantages to my way of thinking, > including a much greater amount of editing required whenever a subtask is > completed, loss of nonlinear dependencies (eg two tasks that run in > parallel; also one task that can start whenever both predecessor tasks > (running in parallel) have completed. Also loss of any history of completed > subtasks and when each one was completed. > -Dwight > MLO Betazoid on Windows, Cloud and Android SGN2 > On 8/22/2015 7:12 PM, Elizabeth Lindsay wrote: > > That is an interesting approach. I personally would find it cumbersome to > keep editing the same item, especially to insert an unplanned (but now > identified) task in the middle of the list. > > Instead, I use the vertical approach, tag the project/folder as complete > in order, and use a view of only active items so only the next action is > shown (not taking up too much room). > > If I'm feeling I need to focus on that project and I need to see the whole > list, I change the view and zoom in to just that project. > > I find keeping sub-tasks separate from each other allows me the full > flexibility of adding dependencies. For example, maybe it is mostly > linear, but there are a few where I can pick and choose the order in the > middle, but the last few tasks can't be done until all the middle ones are > done. > > Good luck! > > On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 8:10:20 AM UTC-5, John Smith wrote: >> >> >> Hello >> >> I want to re-open this topic. >> >> After some months of using MLO, I am now in the habit of writing multiple >> tasks on one line - which I separate with " ==> ". >> >> I normally use this for things that need doing a particular order... or >> sometimes it's just a way of inspiring me to START a project by defining >> something small to get started with. >> I use CAPITALS for major projects (btw, is there really no way to get MLO >> to capitalise MLO-level "Project" names automatically? I already get it to >> change colour...) >> >> e.g. "HOUSE NOW CLEAN ==> clean bedroom ==> hoover stairs ==> bathroom >> (hoover+mirrors) ==> hoover hallway ==> clear/hoover main room." >> >> Now here's the why I like doing this: >> >> a) I can see my *first *task "clean bedroom" automatically, AND >> >> b) I'm not wasting vertical screen space with a long list of stuff which >> I'm not ready to process yet (i.e. I *know* it's there but I'm not >> interested in it right now) AND >> >> c) If I do want to see the other tasks/sub-task, then all I need to do is >> just hover with my mouse and all the hidden text appears with a simple >> mouse-over. >> >> d) Then, as soon as I have completed something (quite possibly *not *in >> the rigid order I had previous suggested to myself !) it's simply a matter >> of clicking on the line at the relevant spot and hitting the delete key a >> few times. (or of in doubt anywhere on the line in question hit F2) >> >> This stricks me as entirely brilliant ! >> To re-cap in this way: >> >> i) I can see what I need to do next (usually the first one OR TWO are in >> fact visible...) >> >> ii) The view is extremely compact - allowing multiple projects to be >> visible on my screen at once >> >> iii) It's trivial to see ALL the tasks within any project at once (not >> just the *first *one - as some MLO reports do... if you can remember how >> to set them up... plus set up hotkeys to get at them etc etc... All very >> fiddly in my experience!) >> >> In fact to be completely honest I'm not even using the "Project" function >> at all ! I may be missing something but it doesnt bring any value to me at >> present. >> >> What I am using however is *indentations* - and I am doing so *a lot*! I >> use it to indicate sub-tasks of tasks. You see for me it's quite rare that >> my mind naturally even *thinks* in terms of "Projects" (i.e. GTD theory not >> withstanding, things have to be genuinely quite large projects before I >> naturally want to think about them in that way!). >> >> There is a further benefit which is more subtle... which is being a very >> visual kinda guy I find it helfpul to *visually* distinguish one project >> from another. [ASIDE: One of the most productive people I know still uses >> pen and paper. Lots of written lists. She like the visual side - the shapes >> of the lists & text etc.] >> >> i.e. When you write on paper this happens automatically of course, but >> digitally all the shapes & mental photos of everything are necessarily >> leaping around as you edit. So I like to create shapes using indentations >> and colours etc. So now, in this way when I think of my "Clean house" >> project in my minds eye I see a list of stuff all on one line. I can see >> visually that these items are all tightly bound to each other. And also I >> recognise it visually when I browse past it WITHOUT READING it! Weird, I >> concede but true. >> >> Now here's downside: >> a) Ticking off is less easy. But I personally don't want to see what >> I've ticked off, nope not ever again - pure clutter! So dont care about >> that. In some instances this can psychologically slightly help me try to do >> all the tasks at once rather then feel good about half completed tasks. >> >> b) Changing order of tasks is less easy. Yes that can be a problem - but >> only sometimes... >> [And yes, for this reason I do sometimes wish to convert horizontal into >> vertical lists - see below] >> >> Ultimately it's a trade-off. You see, it slightly subtle but I like *compact >> *views and to me, and to me the ability to see on any given row... all >> my tasks within that project ... JUST with a simply mouse over, rather than >> with 3 actions is worth it. >> These three task being: >> 1. select the row >> 2. cursor right [to see all the hidden rows] >> 3. cursor left [to hid all the hidden rows again] >> >> Now, the big problem for me is that whenever I change my mind and I want >> to convert a long row into a vertical list of shorter tasks (i.e. multiple >> rows), MLO makes this a nightmare! [WHY SO HARD!!] >> >> I sometimes use the Control/D key and edit but that is pretty painful and >> on balance I regard this as a serious omission by MLO. >> >> To get clear, what MLO needs to do is for any given row: allow you to >> edit the text; get your cursor at the place you require; and hit [whatever >> hotkeys] and thereby get the row to divide i.e. "break" the line into two a >> that point. This would allow the user to go through a long line breaking it >> into a number of short lines very quickly & easily. >> Just like editing text normally in fact! >> >> And it would also be helpful to me to be able to do the reverse.i.e. To >> get to the end of a row's text and when I hit Delete, then the row below >> gets "sucked up" to join the current row. i.e. it the text is appended, and >> any child tasks come with it. >> >> Btw, don't get me wrong I do spend most of my life using cursors & >> hotkeys, rather than mouse. But over time subtle ergomic differences >> emerge. To me using the arrow keys to think about things feels 'more >> clunky' and moreover selecting text then causes a change of colour (white >> text on pale-ish blue for me - which is fractionally harder to read as well >> - yes it can be changed [I just have!] but remember most users won't >> bother...) >> >> SUGGESTION: >> I suggest that a mouse-over on text should 'pop' not just the >> longer/hitten part of the text like it does at present, but also should pop >> all hidden the subtasks below that task (I suggest probably only just >> showing the one level below it...) i.e. I am requesting that a mouseover on >> a task's name field should in effect cause a popup that is rather like >> hitting the little green sideways triangle on and off (when you mouse-off) >> at the start of a row. >> >> I concede that some people may well find this a bit disruptive because as >> your mouse moves around the screen, too much might then be moving... >> however remember I'm NOT asking for all the tasks below it on the screen to >> be actually moved down the screen (as happens when you do a real clicking >> of little green triangle (or arrow right/left), instead I'm asking for the >> texts top "pop-up" in a temporary popup window 'floating' *above* the >> text below it. And that only when you click on text in this popup because >> you want to edit it, only then should you be taken into the formal edit >> mode - at the place in the text where you clicked of course - and only then >> should all the rows below it moved down. >> >> Btw, there is one very slightly annoying thing about the (in many ways >> brilliant) MLO interface, and that is that *during* the mouseover that pops >> up when the task decription is longer than the space visible in the row, if >> without clicking on the text, you try to move the mouse over to the right, >> to the place in the text where you want to edit... the pop-up immediately >> *disappears >> *as soon as you go too far to the right ! >> (i.e. it disappears the instant that you go beyond the area of the text >> box below it). Whereas what I want to do is: When I see a popup showing >> longer lines, if as I move the mouse to the right I do manage to keep my >> mouse over that popup, I want the pop instead of disappearing to remain >> visible on the screen if I left-click it I want to be taken to start >> editing the text at that exact place in the text. >> >> i.e. It's counter-intuitive to be shown some text which you cant just >> click on and edit at that place. >> >> >> BTW, I do also find it annoying that if I click on the area of the text >> field where it does not be full enough of text at that point, (i.e. if you >> left-click at the text but miss the actual text), then the editing window >> fails to open up like it does if you do manage to hit any actual text. So I >> find myself hitting F2 a lot rather than just left-clicking on what I want >> to edit. >> >> Enough >> >> J >> >> >> On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 5:32:55 PM UTC+1, Dwight Arthur wrote: >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 5:53:48 AM UTC-4, J Smith wrote: >>>> >>>> <...>Personally I use this for: >>>> A) Tasks that are *best* done consecutively immediately after each other >>>> e.g."Pick up tap from hardware store ==> go to stationers for pen & >>>> paper ==> supermarket ==> post letter on way home" >>>> B) I also use this to write up things that MUST be done in that >>>> particular sequence but not necessarily immediately after each other: >>>> e.g. "Install new locks ==> Get new keys cut ==> give new keys to Fred >>>> ==> Tell George Fred has new key"<...> >>>> >>> Hi, John. I use this syntax where I have multiple steps that must be >>> done as one. For example >>> Get Clippers>Get rope>prune and tie trees >>> If I get interrupted after getting the clippers and don't get back to >>> this tilltomorrow, I will need to restart at the top. There is no >>> possibility of partial completion. So I'm comfortable with making it a >>> single task.In both of the examples you gave here is a possibility of >>> getting interrupted in the middle and later (maybe much later) needing to >>> pick up and finish. I would want separate tasks. I would still enter it >>> quickly. For example >>> measure for blinds>order blinds>buy wall anchors>did blinds arrive >>> yet?>install blinds >>> would get entered into the Rapid Task Entry window (with parse and >>> multiple entry enabled) as >>> Install Blinds -p -o >>> measure for blinds >>> order blinds >>> buy wall anchors >>> did blinds arrive yet? @waiting >>> >>> for readers less familiar with RTE I will mention that this creates a >>> project with five subtasks and "complete tasks in order" turned on. If I >>> mark tasks complete when I finish them, the next action will always be >>> clear,After the last (waiting) task is completed, the project name (install >>> blinds) becomes the next action. I believe that all of the advantages you >>> mentioned apply, with the additional advantages that it's easy to track >>> partial completion and resume after an interruption, it's easy to add a >>> task to the middle when you need to, and you don't have to worry about >>> splitting lines. >>> >>> -Dwight >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MyLifeOrganized" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mylifeorganized. > To view this discussion on the web visit > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mylifeorganized/b60ce229-ee39-432e-b70f-1c8eb5a1c3df%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mylifeorganized/b60ce229-ee39-432e-b70f-1c8eb5a1c3df%40googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyLifeOrganized" group. 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