This is just getting the image set up - once that is done people in general won't have to touch it - I think it is more of a cpmldr problem than image problem as the disk editors I have say all the sectors are in the right place - this will be pretty easy once all the details are worked out. I used this to create my original image with holes in it so I know it will work - it is getting all the pieces in the right place - need to clean up some things as well - no need to have multiple copies of files for banked and non-banked when we are using a macro assembler - (need to put ifdefs in and get the process much simpler).
Yea of little faith :) Dave On Monday, June 16, 2014 9:20:49 PM UTC-5, monahanz wrote: > > I suppose! If you are having problems however Dave I wonder ! > > John > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] <javascript:> [mailto: > [email protected] <javascript:>] *On Behalf Of *yoda > *Sent:* Monday, June 16, 2014 6:43 PM > *To:* [email protected] <javascript:> > *Cc:* [email protected] <javascript:> > *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM-S100:4241] Re: A windows based program to write a > CPM3 image to a CF card for the S100 IDE board > > > > I think the easiest way to do this is either make 2 image files - one for > serial and one for propeller. They can copy that to a CF card and get > going. It will also allow them to take the image and add more files with > cpmtools. Let's say for example they have a bunch of .com files they would > like to add, then they would put all the .com files in a directory with the > image file say it is called s100ide.dsk, then they would do a cpmcfs -f > s100ide s100ide.dsk *.COM 0: - that will copy all the .com files to the > image and then they write the image to the CF card and now they have all > the new files available. > > > > This will be easy to do - I will write up once I get it all to work - > still having issues. > > > > Dave > > > > > On Monday, June 16, 2014 8:13:56 PM UTC-5, monahanz wrote: > > OK, just thinking out loud again! I’m trying to get to the simplest > possible bootable system for a *real beginner*. I know it’s obvious to > many of us how to use various image tools etc. What I’m trying to get to, > is for a person to simply pop a CF card into our IDE board, reset, and up > comes CPM3. What are the minimum hurdles he/she has to go through to do > that. Think back, to the first time you did this stuff. > > > > When you think about it the only variable initially is the console I/O. > If you go with our Propeller driven board then that’s even not a big > variable since it has all kinds of status in/out jumper options. I > realize it’s not for everybody, some like true serial etc. > > > > How about this:- > > We make a CPM3 CF card for a 2 disk system, non-banked, basic system > (console I/O only). It contains CPM3.SYS, CCP.COM, PIP and a few other > essentials. The only thing special about this “one-of” CF card is that the > sector/location on the card of the console I/O routine is flagged by a > unique string of bytes, say 20 should do it. All one has to do then, is > “one time only” locate where this string is on the CF card and either with > a MDOS program hand insert the few bytes required to set the console In/Out > port (Z80 C register) number and status bits or at a higher level write a C > type program to do so. The CPM BIOS only has one location of Console IO, > actually 2 outputs, one input, with the loader, but it should be easy to > do. > > > > Such a CF card we can supply to real beginners. They would be airborne > immediately. > > > > John > > > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *yoda > *Sent:* Monday, June 16, 2014 2:52 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* [email protected]; [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM-S100:4234] Re: A windows based program to write a > CPM3 image to a CF card for the S100 IDE board > > > > Once we have the cpmtools working correctly it is much easier to build the > complete image or even modify it on the PC. You can use cpmcp to copy any > file you want into the image. Then for the Windoze people you can use an > open source utility like Windd to copy the disk image to the CF. You don't > have to mess around with Xmodem or MSDOS partitions, etc. It is really > simple. And your solution does not address how to get things on the B > drive. I will write this up when I have it working and the users can > decide whether it is simple enough - it is very similar to what is done on > the N8VEM branch of this group and it has worked well. > > > > Dave > > > On Monday, June 16, 2014 4:33:03 PM UTC-5, monahanz wrote: > > How about we split the problem into two parts. > > > > First (using the Altair Simulator) we make a file that contains all the > sectors needed to boot up a non-banked basic CPM system. The console I/O > can be done by “poking” a few bytes into the image that contains the status > & data ports, the mask and value of bit(s) when for when a character is at > the keyboard (likewise for ready to display on console). That’s it. This > was the way old CPM programs did it for things like XMODEM etc. The > “image” need only contain the CPM3.SYS and CCP.COM files as well. Other > files can be on the B: drive and can be passed around freely, loaded into > RAM, saved, whatever. This core “program” can be tested by people that > have their IDE/CPM system up and running. Let’s not get hung up on the > holes issue. As I said the only reason I had holes was because I wanted my > initial CPM.SYS to work with a Seagate Hard disk and the CF cards. That > said I do seem to remember some of these CF cards had different > track/sector numbers. Have to think about that! > > > > The second step is (under windows) writing the data to a blank CF card. > There are a couple of ways this could be done. It could be a MSDOS second > partition way inside the CF card away from CPM and the monitor picks it off > (one time only) from there and a CPM SYSGEN like program writes a > traditional disk. Or alternatively a windows based program (probably C > based) just forces the data on to a blank formatted disk. Remember CPM > formatted sectors are different from MSDOS ones. CPM uses 0’s, DOS uses > E5’s or something like that. > > > > In this day and age there are probably a number of ways to do the second > step. We can call in one of the MSDOS Google Groups if need be. > > > > John > > > > > > > > *From:* yoda [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Monday, June 16, 2014 2:00 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [N8VEM-S100:4226] Re: A windows based program to write a > CPM3 image to a CF card for the S100 IDE board > > > > John > > > > Sorry that is not my goal. I think building the 2 files with altairz80 is > straight forward enough. It is building the image for CP/M that is > generally difficult especially if you want a set of working files on the > disk. It was virtually impossible with the holes in the disk which I think > we may now have solved. If you want to have a cpmldr and cpm3.sys for > serial and propeller then say copy one set to cpmldr.com and cpm3.sys we > can make that very easy. It is not quite as simple as you think of poking > bytes (if you need to initialize the serial I/O port for example). The > current ROMs don't need to be modified because they will load the first 12 > sectors in memory and go (no holes involved for track 0). > > > > Dave > > On Monday, June 16, 2014 3:42:21 PM UTC-5, monahanz wrote: > > Guys, remember in the end we need an idiot proof windows program that will > prepare a CF disk prepared on a windows PC that asks for only the console > status & data port, status bit true/false and boots up a non-banked CPM3 > (with say, 60K of RAM) when the first sector is placed in RAM at 80H by a > monitor (or by hand). I volunteer to be the idiot tester! > > John > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *yoda > *Sent:* Monday, June 16, 2014 12:44 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [N8VEM-S100:4226] Re: A windows based program to write a CPM3 > image to a CF card for the S100 IDE board > > > > Hi David > > > > Looks like progress - Yes it should be a BANKED CPM image. I will try > again tonight with your debug CPMLDR - I have not been able to get as far > as you have. Is your LBA routine now with the -1 or not?. > > > > I will look at my files again and make sure they are setup for banked - > though I had just re-downloaded John's file for banked version and changed > to use serial I/O and added your writelba routine. I did not check if all > the variables were set right. > > > > Dave > > > > On Monday, June 16, 2014 2:18:47 PM UTC-5, David Fry wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > > currently looking at your disk image, layout looks fine. > > I have placed your image onto a CF card and over wrote your CPMLDR.COM > with one of mine that logs the sectors read to the screen for > troubleshooting. > > I can see the directory is read as sector 40H and CPM3.SYS starts to load > starting at sector 80H and loads 35 sectors in total matching the directory > entry of 9 allocation units. > > > > I have a question, the screenshot below would seen to suggest that this > image is a 'BANKED' cpm image, yet your HLDRBIOS.ASM has the Banked > variable set to 'false', which is it ? > > > > next question, have you added the LBA section in HIDE.ASM for CPM3.SYS and > removed the offset correction ? > > > > regards > > > > David Fry > On Sunday, June 15, 2014 1:46:12 AM UTC+1, yoda wrote: > > Hi David > > > > Had too many diskdefs and there was one in the directory where I was doing > things with the wrong format. The dummy.file I had created by dd 512 bytes > from a text file so that is why it was confusing so I made one with just e5 > bytes in it. I tried to remove the dec 1 instruction but still no working. > I still get a BDOS Err, Perm. when it jumps to LBA 0x40. Here is the new > disk and HLDRBIOS.ASM - see if you can figure out what is wrong or how to > load it. If we can get this disk to load and work - it is really simple to > make these and you can load whatever you want on them. > > > > Dave > > > > On Saturday, June 14, 2014 4:36:04 PM UTC-5, David Fry wrote: > > Dave, > > > > had a quick look at the disk image you uploaded and noted a couple of > things > > 1) sector 0 seems to contain text notes with the start of CPMLDR.COM > beginning at sector 1 as the first byte is 31H as you would expect. > > > > 2) the directory table entries seem to start at sector 61 ?? and not at > sector 64 where we would expect track 1 to start. > > > > A couple of thoughts, if the position of CPMLDR.COM is correct then we > can take out the -1 sector correction from the LBA routine and move all the > sectors up one position leaving sector 0 blank, this will also have the > effect of moving the directory table upto sector 40H where you expected to > see it (and in hindsight I agree) > > > > whats puzzling me at the moment is why is the directory table in sector 61 > when you created the image with 64 sec/trk. > > > > does cpmtools support 64 sector/track ? is seems to have set the image to > 61 sectors/track > > > > regards > > > > David Fry > > > > > On Saturday, June 14, 2014 9:35:29 PM UTC+1, yoda wrote: > > Sorry for previous - web posted before I was ready > > > > The diskdefs are: > > > > diskdef s100ide > > seclen 512 > > tracks 256 > > sectrck 64 > > blocksize 2048 > > skew 0 > > boottrk 1 > > > > I think the problem is the -1 but I am not sure - Track 1 sector 1 should > be 0x40 not 0x3F but I am not sure - tried commenting out the dec 1 but > that did not seem to help either. I have included my hldrbios.asm as well > > > > Dave > > On Saturday, June 14, 2014 2:13:22 PM UTC-5, David Fry wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > > thats right on a 64 sector border, this may be where my -1 or +1 sector > correction may be wrong. > > > > regards > > > > David Fry > On Saturday, June 14, 2014 8:00:09 PM UTC+1, yoda wrote: > > Hi David > > > > Sounds like a plan. I have made one and when it boots with debug > CPMLDR.COM reads LBA 3F and 40 then stops - that is where I am at. Let > me dig up an image and I will post here for you to look - at - think it is > pretty close > > > > Dave > > > > On Saturday, June 14, 2014 1:48:33 PM UTC-5, David Fry wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > > If we can get the 'No holes' CF card layout to be compliant with cpmtool > then that has to be the way to go as it will make life much easier. > > As I said in a previous post, I welcome this 'no holes' lba to be picked > apart to get it right before we go too far down the road and find problems > later. > > > > I'm a little busy at the moment with various other aspects of my S100 > system with the little time I have to spend on it,(summer is coming after > all :-) ) > > If you can knock together a quick image with a CPMLDR.COM and CPM3.SYS > (doesnt matter what system it's for) then we could take a look to see how > the layout differs. > > My layout was derived from where CPMLDR was looking to find data. > > > > regards > > > > David Fry > On Saturday, June 14, 2014 7:30:00 PM UTC+1, yoda wrote: > > why not take a look at the cpmtools set. It has a program called mkfs.cpm > that will make a file as a cpm filesystem. You can specify a boot image > which it will lay down in the boot sectors. You can then use cpmcp to copy > files to the cpm filesystem. Then you can take the file and write it block > by block to the CF card. I did this originally to get my system up and > running. I actually used dd (a utility on linux or Mac) to write it to the > CF. I actually wrote a little script to take the file image and add the > "holes" back in so it would work with your BIOS. I went back and tried it > with the no hole version and had some difficulties that I have not > straightened out yet. I don't know if I did something wrong or David Fry's > LBA routine is not doing what I thought it did. I have not gone back and > investigated yet but with David's help we can probably probably get this > resolved. The procedure would go like this: > > > > 1) mkfs.cpm -f s100ide -b dummy.file -b CPMLDR.COM s100.dsk > > > > where s100ide is an entry in diskdefs that specifies the geometry of the > drive > > dummy.file is a 512 byte empty file to get CPMLDR.COM to be in the > correct sector start. > > s100.dsk is the file that represent the disk image. > > 2) cpmcp -f s100ide s100.dsk CPM3.SYS 0: > > cpmcp -f s100ide s100.dsk <cpm file> 0: copies <cpm file> to user > area 0 on disk image > > continue until you have all the files you want on the disk > > > > 3) use a disk image write tool (dd on Linux or Mac) to write s100.dsk to > CF card > > > > Here is a link to the cpmtools: http://www.moria.de/~michael/cpmtools/ > These tools run on Windoze for those that use that OS and easily compiled > for Mac or Linux. > > > > This is the way I am building my images for CP/M 68K that I am currently > working on. > > > > I think getting the diskdefs set write and a good writeLBA routine and we > should be able to get the procedure down. > > > > Dave > > > On Saturday, June 14, 2014 11:31:49 AM UTC-5, monahanz wrote: > > Guys, it’s great to see all the progress and uptake this simple little IDE > board has generated. Thomas in particular congratulations on putting so > much time and effort into “hammering into shape” the process for first time > installs. It helps tremendously but I think it will still be difficult for > some people to do. We all should remember how it was when we first > started! > > > > I’m wondering if somebody out there could spend the time writing a > PC/MSDOS based program to setup a CF card for first time users. If we > agree the IDE board ports start at 30H, the only variable would be the > console I/O. This could be either spliced into the final disk image with > the above program (leaving room in the base code with NOP’s) or by > answering a Q&A session and inserting code like the old XMODEM programs > did. A CF card is laid down as Dave describes and is checked out. Once the > image is laid down it can be dumped sector for sector any CF card (no > holes of course). The image can even include a few CPM programs. Probably > best to start with a non-banked CPM3 image. This program would run on a > standard PC, format the CF card and write the image sector by sector. Not > sure if Windows 7,8 allows you to do that easily but there must be a way. > > > > This would allow anybody not as sophisticated as some of us, to get going > right away and allow them to write more elaborate CPM3.SYS files that > include a FDC, printer etc. in the BIOS for their own hardware. > > I think something like this would be a tremendous asset for first time > S100 users. > > <o: > > ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM-S100" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
