I do not know how to properly applaud Dalibor. It seems such an empty thing
coming from myself. I am just an observer.
However, I am so absolutely impressed with what he has done. It quite goes
beyond the obsessive amateur radio guys filling a room with gear, the amateur
scale-railroad enthusiasts who fill a workshop and make ride-on trains. We have
all seen TV docos and interviews with such people.
Dalibor seems to have had an idea and made it into a dream and then is well on
the way to realising that potential. He seems to have kept his feet on the
ground.
Perhaps I feel this way because my wife and I have 10 minutes ago [together]
read the book "What do you do with an IDEA?", Kobi Yamada, illus Mae Besom,
2014. [Don't overlook another one by the pair - "What do you do with a
problem?" and perhaps "The most Magnificent Thing", Ashely Spires.]
I know that there have been video snippets of Dalibor's work, but it warrants a
full documentary. I hope that there is someone in the loop who can do some
Life Writing (to use the more modern term for a bio and auto-bio etc). And it
needs to be done now, progressively, not in 20 years.
I think that the Japanese concept of "Living National Treasure" applies to
Dalibor. "Well done, that man!" as the Brits might say.
His staff and family deserve some accolades too of course.
John Kaesehagen
Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dalibor
To: neonixie-l
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 4:46 AM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes
Hello!
I am sending few notes to this topic, from a perspective of someone who spent
last 5 years exclusively in nixie tubes manufacture ;-)
IMHO, $25 nixie tube is not possible. Nixie tubes were never so cheap, even
in 60s, the less expensive tube from Burroughs was for $8 (equal to today's
$64) when bought in a quantity of 1000pcs, type B-5016, no mercury. Large tube
(B-7094) were for $30 (today's $240). In this time, the nixie tubes were
cutting edge technology with generous budget, hoard of R&D engineers and whole
tube backing industry. They were produced in large quantities for lot of
equipment, mostly measuring devices - almost never for digital clocks, they
were simply expensive for consumer market.
You can now find small tubes on eBay for around $5, mostly russian tubes -
their price is now determined by market (what are hobbyists willing to pay for
it), not manufacturing costs. They were produced in large volumes in soviet
central planned economy, even when the demand was decreasing - this is why
there are still full stocks of them in former soviet countries.
You mention "current manufacturing methods", we actually dont have much new
technologies which could simplify the nixie tube manufacture. The use of
computers is very limited and doesnt help much. Also new technologies like
laser cutting etc. doesnt help (only for machinery construction, jigs..). There
are tens of operations involved in the assembly/sealing/pumping procedures -
the quantity of machines needed for automated line would be big and their price
very high. As NeonJohn suggested - few $M would be necessary just for the
machinery. You would also soon find that automation make demands on supplier's
tolerances ( e.g. glass thickness, diameter) which is beyond their standard
production capabilities = back to hand processing.. This is one of the reason
why large factories like Blackburn had own facilities for production of all the
raw materials/prefabs.
Last year, I had a meeting with people from german company producing
glassworking machines - simple semiautomated machine just for sealing operation
(stem/envelope) which still needs operator starts at $250.000 and its
production capacity is not so high (my estimation was 30 tubes/hour). And this
is one of very few pieces of equipment you can purchase, the rest is necessary
to develop - according to your specifications and process description.
But even if you had a fully equiped factory now, it would take you long time
to get to working nixie tubes. It is not about machines, but about the
operator/R&D - you need to know when the tube is sufficiently degassed before
filling, what purity of the raw material is necessary, purity of the gases,
time for aging etc.. Many factors, each of them can make your tube prone to
failure. Not immediately, but after year of operation for instance - your
backers will not wait years until you come up with working combination..
Some data from our business:
- Our price for a tube is now set to $145.
- We make around 130 tubes per month (+ handful of clocks) with monthly
revenue of around 20.000 USD.
- We are now a team of 5 people and this production volume makes us really
busy (I work 7 days a week, all day long).
- We need 250 square meters (2700sqft) of space for our current equipment.
- As for the "butique price" - my monthly net salary is $384, I get paid
since February 2017 ;-) But my people's salary is above average (for a given
profession and our region).
- I invested around $80.000 from my personal savings on the beginning
I know that if I want to really succeed and earn money, I need to cut down
the production costs. So I am step by step making our manufacture efficient
with the intention to make our nixie tubes less expensive one day. I am
investing our profit back to tooling/equipment, I am for example working on a
high vacuum rotary manifold for carousel pumping machine with higher production
capacity. I recently reverse-engineered Philips vacuum locking mechanism (tube
clamping) for the same machine. But I am not sure if it is possible to make
nixie tubes for below $60-80 even with high level of automation.
I hope it doesnt sound too discouraging ;-) just my $0.02
best regards,
Dalibor Farny
On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 11:52:06 UTC+2, Aiden Koh wrote:
I'm a product engineer taking on a new project.
With current manufacturing methods, I'm able to manufacture In-18/Z568M
inspired nixie tubes, at a fraction of their market costs (sub 25 USD/pc). I
don't compromise on quality. hence, it will be built with parts mostly sourced
from the US, and have the quality management system ISO-certified.
However, due to overhead costs, such a price is only available if the
minimum demand for said tubes is reached. Hence I can only commence with the
project when I know that there is enough interest.
What are your thoughts? Would it interest you if such tubes exist? show
your support, and large, affordable nixie tubes may finally be within our grasp!
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