I take it that you never got one of these working? Peter On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 10:33 AM Dekatron42 <[email protected]> wrote:
> Touching the glass means that you get a capacitive coupling which will > upset them somewhat, there was a special socket made for this by Philips > which has a partial metal screen surrounding the tube. The socket is > nicknamed "der Kuss" , "The kiss", due to its form. I couldn't find a photo > on the Internet now but I know it exists as I have some in my storage and > in an instrument that uses them. That instrument is called PW4261 Timer, > some photos of the externals can be found on the Internet. On this socket > all of the resistors are mounted flush to the pins to minimize the > distance, but the capacitors and power supply is mounted some 40cm from the > tubes themselves, likewise there are long wires to the drivers. > > You can also have a look at the manual for the PW4231 which I scanned that > can be downloaded from here: > https://frank.pocnet.net/other/sos/Philips_PW4232.pdf if that can help > you with the voltages for the drivers. > > /Martin > > > > On Thursday, 11 February 2021 at 15:50:55 UTC+1 [email protected] wrote: > >> I meant dekatron in my last reply to gregebert. >> I have 3 of these tubes, all apparently new (NOS). >> Per your suggestion I tried the other two. One is almost perfect but >> flashes the 2 a bit when 8 is selected. The third is perfect unless I hold >> the tube in my fingers by the glass where I get lots of random flashing. >> Remember that the really bad one works perfectly with the capacitor moved >> as I mentioned. I don't know if touching the glass affects it. >> More later, I will be away this morning. >> Peter. >> >> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 2:10 AM Dekatron42 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Have you tried the circuit in the J.B Dance book below? Here they use a >>> center tapped transformer and also a much lower value capacitor, only 33nF >>> versus 250nF in your circuit - I've only evere seen 33nF used in real >>> instruments using these indicators. >>> >>> Quite a few of the Z550M/ZM1050 are broken internally, I have a box of >>> them, and that seems to be due to the welding of the internal parts coming >>> loose when shaken or hit hard (the same problem exists with the >>> B9012/NL9012 tubes - I have a few broken ones of those too with internal >>> pieces that have come loose) - sometimes you can hear these loose pieces if >>> you shake the tube very carefully close to your ear. What usually happens >>> is that a rather large round center piece comes loose and in the worst case >>> shortens some of the electrodes but usually only makes it hard or >>> impossible to get all digits to light up poperly and some of them trigger >>> easier than others due to the distances between electrodes are differing, >>> shaking the tube a little moves that effect around so other digits will >>> start to work and vice versa. >>> >>> /Martin >>> >>> [image: JBDance-Z550M.JPG] >>> >>> On Thursday, 11 February 2021 at 06:02:24 UTC+1 gregebert wrote: >>> >>>> If you have an isolation transformer, can you put a scope on the >>>> cathode line to verify the ripple is not excessive ? Rk and Ck create an RC >>>> filter around 77Hz, and the line is 50-60Hz, so there could be some ripple. >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 8:26:51 PM UTC-8 [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I tried varying it with absolutely no effect. It runs perfectly at 5v >>>>> with the capacitor moved to the other side of the resistor. However I was >>>>> clocking slowly. It may not run at spec speed. I seem to remember reading >>>>> of using 5 to 8 volts for the logic. >>>>> The data sheet shows the following which I'm inclined to believe. I >>>>> will try Ck directly on the pins tomorrow. Someone must have tried this >>>>> circuit. >>>>> [image: 8453 Cct.JPG] >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 11:12 PM gregebert <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I suspect the differential voltage between lit vs non-lit numerals is >>>>>> too low. The CMOS device is basically driving grids to determine which >>>>>> cathode will be illuminated. I've seen similar behavior with an A-101 >>>>>> dekatron. What voltage are you using for VDD ? Is it 8V as indicated on >>>>>> the >>>>>> schematic, or a more-conventional 5V ? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 7:22:25 PM UTC-8 [email protected] >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you are wrong. The literature explains this tube is >>>>>>> designed to be driven by 5v logic and it does work. The steering >>>>>>> electrodes >>>>>>> are close to the Anode voltage which is grounded and only 5v pulses >>>>>>> (square >>>>>>> waves) are needed. Note all the cathodes are connected together >>>>>>> internally. >>>>>>> I got to thinking about the C1 position. The data sheet shows it per >>>>>>> my schematic and I can't believe they made that mistake several times >>>>>>> including the hand drawn notes of the designer. I think maybe I needed >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> have C1 directly on the socket pins and will try that tomorrow. >>>>>>> Thanks for your interest though but you are thinking Nixie Tubes, >>>>>>> this is a special tube with steering electrodes.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:42 PM chuckrr <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That schematic is so wrong in so many ways. You need high voltage >>>>>>>> transistors operating the tube cathodes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You need high resistance drving the transistor bases. You need a >>>>>>>> buffer such as 4049 or 4050 driving the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> resistor, which in turn drives the transistor base. Only then >>>>>>>> would I dare to use the 4028....to operate the buffer, which in turn >>>>>>>> operates the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> transistor base via appropriate high resistance. That is the only >>>>>>>> sure fire way I know of to attain noise-free performance from CMOS >>>>>>>> logic >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> driving cold cathode tubes. That schematic there is a noisy deal. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---- Original Message ---- >>>>>>>> From: "peter bunge" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Sent: 2/10/2021 8:15:21 PM >>>>>>>> To: "neonixie-l" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Subject: [neonixie-l] 8453/Z550M erratic >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Using the schematic from the data sheet >>>>>>>> [image: 8453 Circuit.jpg] >>>>>>>> This works with the count moving around but other numbers flash >>>>>>>> erratically, especially close to the number that is supposed to be lit. >>>>>>>> *When I moved the bottom of C1 to the other side of R1 it works >>>>>>>> perfectly. It is rock steady and does not care about line voltage or >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> 5v supply (shown above as 8v but used at 5v)* >>>>>>>> If this is an error it is continued through all the documentation >>>>>>>> and is consistent. Changing the value of C1 up and down by 10 had >>>>>>>> little >>>>>>>> effect but a smaller C1 helps a bit. My Rst are all directly on the >>>>>>>> socket >>>>>>>> pins and the wires are all about 5 inches long. >>>>>>>> I have varied the line voltage with little effect. >>>>>>>> Any suggestions??? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/b996ef0b-edbb-4c77-8ec1-57255dd58a82n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/b996ef0b-edbb-4c77-8ec1-57255dd58a82n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/202102101842701.SM05295%40ADT-IM1 >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/202102101842701.SM05295%40ADT-IM1?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/9543e23e-ebb0-46e7-8624-ddcf4a843667n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/9543e23e-ebb0-46e7-8624-ddcf4a843667n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7085da7d-27dd-46f3-9bba-9e2d369dcc4fn%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7085da7d-27dd-46f3-9bba-9e2d369dcc4fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "neonixie-l" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/ad3deb14-52ce-4b11-b048-dd6dea83bdban%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/ad3deb14-52ce-4b11-b048-dd6dea83bdban%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. 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