I'm with Corrado here. Martin is welcome to believe that you can't simultaneously purse artist and academic careers. I suggest that considerable empirical evidence exists to demonstrate otherwise. I guess Joseph Beuys wasn't an artist...
Michael has chipped in with some elaborations on what Martin may or may not have meant. Here is my response. Artists haven't "recently" become more and more involved in academia. The first institutional art and architecture schools opened in this country in the 19th century. Before the majority of universities inf fact. There is a (very rich) tradition in this country and in many others such as Germany, US etc. that people who work in these places also are practicing artists. To set-up some kind of 'poacher-gamekeeper" division between the "real artists" presumably starving, living in garratts and and working independently and those who have academic posts and also continue to practice is not something I think I can subscribe to. I'm frankly baffled by the attacks on people who are practicing artists/academics. It's not as though we design weapons of mass production for a living. For me anyhow there is a whiff of the neo-liberal right about all this. Real artists live and work in the private sector and then you've got the other lot - the mendicants who work in the public sector. // Corrado Morgana wrote: > There was absolutely no intent to bully, merely point out that this is, in > my opinion, trolling and intended to be devisive and provocative in a manner > that is not consistent with the kind of debates on this list. > In other forums people are kicked, banned, threads are locked for trolling. > Let's not go down that route and just have the decency to ignore or > playfully critique; shutting up however is something that I may have > difficulty with. > > I am an artist and an academic and feel attacked by certain comments on this > list. I am sick of continually having to justify my worldview as an artist, > academic, son of an immigrant, owner of massive shouldered chip, a > combination of the preceding. I do not feel particularly comfortable with > any of these terms, I just do stuff, but when cornered, I'm an artist > /Academic so there;-) > > The idea that academic discourse/production kills art or is incompatible is > naïve. Research informs, cultivates, nurtures, expands and in some cases > pays the bills. > An artist either buys into these structures, intervenes and subverts these > structures or creates their own structures. All of these have the potential > to become self languaging and/or non-critical. I know many artists and many > academics. This does not readily equate to artists and those who teach art. > I know teachers of art who are called academics only in the sense that they > work in academia as well as those who publish both practice and text and > teach. I think that the schema of artist/teacher/writer and researcher may > add a spanner of clarity or complexity to some perceptions of academics. In > the end it's just a way to make significant acts. > > There will always be artists who are bad teachers or academics who are bad > artists...artists and academics who are monocultural and cannot see the > larger picture are worse than both. > > C > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org > [mailto:netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org] On Behalf Of Michael > Szpakowski > Sent: 08 January 2010 12:22 PM > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Call for Submissions: > MultichannelVariableEconomies Screening Programme Deadline 28th January > > Hang on a moment! Martin's original post *was* expressed forcefully but, > agree with it or not, it was a perfectly legitimate contribution here. > He's also had the consistency and courage to argue his position in the face > of overwhelming ( and somewhat smug - "*We* understand - what's not to > understand?") opposition. > There's a nasty whiff of the playground bully to some of the more recent > replies, including the one below. > Personally although I'd try and be a bit more, I hope, nuanced about it I > think Martin raised two real issues. > (1) The fact that academia has become an increasing natural home for artists > ( and indeed a financial necessity for many) and that this has created a > genuine intellectual and creative tension. It simply isn't good enough for > academics to shrug their shoulders and say 'what's the problem guv?' There's > *is* a confusion of poachers and gamekeepers and whilst I'm happy to remain > open minded about the eventual upshot of this it's dishonest to pretend that > it isn't an issue. > (2) The "creative" or "interventionist" role of the curator supported often > by a dose of apparently infinitely malleable "theory" -I incline to the > cynical here *but* at the least I want to assert there is room for debate, > for discussion and investigation. > > Lastly I'd also like to suggest to Martin that he posts some of his work > here - it's in the actual work that differences, if they don't actually > dissolve , at least take on a less threatening aspect... > > cheers > michael > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/8/10, Corrado Morgana <corradomorg...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > > >> From: Corrado Morgana <corradomorg...@blueyonder.co.uk> >> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Call for Submissions: Multichannel >> > VariableEconomies Screening Programme Deadline 28th January > >> To: "'NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity'" >> > <netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org> > >> Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 11:05 AM >> Hi, >> >> >> I am of the impression that the silver spacesuit and >> jetpacked future has >> arrived and that Mr Mitchell is a very sophisticated >> trollbot! >> >> Mr. Mitchell's impossibility of being both artist and >> academic is UTTER >> NONSENSE, I agree Tom >> >> Troll (Internet) >> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia >> >> "Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation DNFTT >> redirect here. For the >> Wikimedia essay, see "What is a troll?". >> >> In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts >> inflammatory, extraneous, or >> off-topic messages in an online community, such as an >> online discussion >> forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of >> provoking other users >> into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting >> normal on-topic >> discussion.[2] >> >> We all know what happens to trolls... >> >> C >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org >> [mailto:netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org] >> On Behalf Of tom corby >> Sent: 08 January 2010 8:52 AM >> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity >> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Call for Submissions: >> Multichannel >> VariableEconomies Screening Programme Deadline 28th >> January >> >> So you can't be both? Sorry this is nonsense. >> >> martin mitchell wrote: >> >>> Artists who teach in art colleges unfortunately seem >>> >> to become academics. >> >>> An individual is either an artist or an academic. >>> >>> >>> On 7 Jan 2010, at 23:54, Simon Biggs wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Most people on this list are artists, including >>>> >> myself. Any academic >> >>>> roles we have are a result of what we have done as >>>> >> artists, not >> >>>> academics. That is part of socio-economics... >>>> >>>> Simon Biggs >>>> >>>> Research Professor >>>> edinburgh college of art >>>> s.bi...@eca.ac.uk >>>> www.eca.ac.uk >>>> >>>> *C*reative *I*nterdisciplinary *R*esearch into >>>> >> *C*o*L*laborative >> >>>> *E*nvironments >>>> CIRCLE research group >>>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ >>>> >>>> si...@littlepig.org.uk >>>> >> <x-msg://114/si...@littlepig.org.uk> >> >>>> www.littlepig.org.uk <http://www.littlepig.org.uk> >>>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>>> *From: *martin mitchell <martinmitc...@mac.com >>>> >>>> <x-msg://114/martinmitc...@mac.com>> >>>> *Reply-To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed >>>> >> creativity >> >>>> <netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>> >>>> <x-msg://114/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>> *Date: *Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:39:14 +0000 >>>> *To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed >>>> >> creativity >> >>>> <netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>> >>>> <x-msg://114/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [NetBehaviour] Call for >>>> >> Submissions: Multichannel >> >>>> VariableEconomies Screening Programme Deadline >>>> >> 28th January >> >>>> WHOW..............No the complete opposite I'm an >>>> >> artist and not an >> >>>> academic. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7 Jan 2010, at 23:28, Simon Biggs wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> You don't like art? >>>>> >>>>> Simon Biggs >>>>> >>>>> Research Professor >>>>> edinburgh college of art >>>>> s.bi...@eca.ac.uk >>>>> www.eca.ac.uk >>>>> >>>>> *C*reative *I*nterdisciplinary *R*esearch into >>>>> >> *C*o*L*laborative >> >>>>> *E*nvironments >>>>> CIRCLE research group >>>>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ >>>>> >>>>> si...@littlepig.org.uk >>>>> >> <x-msg://114/si...@littlepig.org.uk> >> >> >>>>> <x-msg://79/si...@littlepig.org.uk >>>>> >> <x-msg://79/si...@littlepig.org.uk>> >> >>>>> www.littlepig.org.uk <http://www.littlepig.org.uk> >>>>> <http://www.littlepig.org.uk <http://www.littlepig.org.uk/>> >>>>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>>>> *From: *martin mitchell <martinmitc...@mac.com >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://114/martinmitc...@mac.com> >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://79/martinmitc...@mac.com >>>>> >> <x-msg://79/martinmitc...@mac.com>> >> >>>>> *Reply-To: *NetBehaviour for networked >>>>> >> distributed creativity >> >>>>> <netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://114/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://79/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://79/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>>> >>>>> *Date: *Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:42:10 +0000 >>>>> *To: *NetBehaviour for networked distributed >>>>> >> creativity >> >>>>> <netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://114/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://79/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://79/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>>> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [NetBehaviour] Call for >>>>> >> Submissions: Multichannel >> >>>>> VariableEconomies Screening Programme Deadline >>>>> >> 28th January >> >>>>> Have no idea what this means >>>>> >> .......... >> >>>>> "They want some video art that engages >>>>> >> current international >> >>>>> socio-economic events to put in an >>>>> >> exhibition". >> >>>>> Common sense tells us it's meaningless. >>>>> >>>>> Just cannot write anymore........... this is >>>>> >> embarrassing nonsense. >> >>>>> martin mitchell. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7 Jan 2010, at 17:11, james morris wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHoCd1pTJx4&feature=PlayList&p=5840AC014CA20F > >> 89&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=56 >> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHoCd1pTJx4&feature=PlayList&p=5840AC014CA20 > >> F89&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=56> >> >>>>>> :) >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/1/2010, "Simon Biggs" <s.bi...@eca.ac.uk >>>>>> >>>>>> <x-msg://114/s.bi...@eca.ac.uk> >>>>>> >> <x-msg://79/s.bi...@eca.ac.uk >> >> >>>>>> <x-msg://79/s.bi...@eca.ac.uk>> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>> Seems clear to me. They want some >>>>>>> >> video art that engages current >> >>>>>>> international socio-economic events to >>>>>>> >> put in an exhibition. >> >>>>>>> Simon Biggs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Research Professor >>>>>>> edinburgh college of art >>>>>>> s.bi...@eca.ac.uk >>>>>>> >> <x-msg://114/s.bi...@eca.ac.uk> >> >> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/s.bi...@eca.ac.uk >>>>>>> >> <x-msg://79/s.bi...@eca.ac.uk>> >> >>>>>>> www.eca.ac.uk <http://www.eca.ac.uk> <http://www.eca.ac.uk >>>>>>> <http://www.eca.ac.uk/>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Creative Interdisciplinary Research >>>>>>> >> into CoLlaborative Environments >> >>>>>>> CIRCLE research group >>>>>>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ <http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/> >>>>>>> <http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> si...@littlepig.org.uk >>>>>>> >> <x-msg://114/si...@littlepig.org.uk> >> >> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/si...@littlepig.org.uk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/si...@littlepig.org.uk>> >>>>>>> www.littlepig.org.uk <http://www.littlepig.org.uk> >>>>>>> <http://www.littlepig.org.uk <http://www.littlepig.org.uk/>> >>>>>>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: martin mitchell <martinmitc...@mac.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://114/martinmitc...@mac.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/martinmitc...@mac.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/martinmitc...@mac.com>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked >>>>>>> >> distributed creativity >> >>>>>>> <netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://114/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:50:15 +0000 >>>>>>> To: NetBehaviour for networked >>>>>>> >> distributed creativity >> >>>>>>> <netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://114/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Call for >>>>>>> >> Submissions: Multichannel >> >>>>>>> Variable >>>>>>> Economies Screening Programme Deadline >>>>>>> >> 28th January >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is this another example of >>>>>>> >> administrative gobbledegook ...........! >> >>>>>>> Have no idear of what you are trying >>>>>>> >> to describe. >> >>>>>>> martin mitchell [ artist ]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7 Jan 2010, at 11:25, Helen Sloan >>>>>>> >> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hello >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is my first post here and >>>>>>>> >> it's a call - sorry. I really >> >>>>>>>> enjoyed the >>>>>>>> Dark Mountain debate and the one >>>>>>>> >> that's emerging on Second Life >> >>>>>>>> so far. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Meantime, I hope this is of >>>>>>>> >> interest and do contact if you want >> >>>>>>>> more info. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Happy New Year >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Helen >>>>>>>> Helen Sloan >>>>>>>> SCAN >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS: Multichannel >>>>>>>> >> 3 >> >>>>>>>> Title: Variable Economies >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Variable Economies provides the >>>>>>>> >> theme for the programme of works for >> >>>>>>>> Multichannel 2010. The theme >>>>>>>> >> implies the current global economic >> >>>>>>>> downturn, >>>>>>>> decreased availability of >>>>>>>> >> resources influenced by human >> >>>>>>>> intervention in the >>>>>>>> natural environment, shifts in >>>>>>>> >> national and global political >> >>>>>>>> emphasis, and >>>>>>>> formally in relation to the making >>>>>>>> >> of artist film and video. For >> >>>>>>>> Multichannel 2010 artists are >>>>>>>> >> invited to submit works for >> >>>>>>>> selection that >>>>>>>> touch upon the themes of the >>>>>>>> >> programme in terms of the use of the >> >>>>>>>> medium/material of film and >>>>>>>> >> video. >> >>>>>>>> Multichannel is a screening >>>>>>>> >> programme of artists film and video, >> >>>>>>>> organised >>>>>>>> and curated by ArtSway and SCAN in >>>>>>>> >> ArtSway's galleries. The >> >>>>>>>> programme, which >>>>>>>> previously took place at ArtSway >>>>>>>> >> in 2007 and 2008, will once >> >>>>>>>> again feature >>>>>>>> both established practitioners, as >>>>>>>> >> well as ground breaking video >> >>>>>>>> works by >>>>>>>> artists from across the UK, and >>>>>>>> >> around the world. This year we >> >>>>>>>> are pleased >>>>>>>> to announce that Animate Projects >>>>>>>> >> will partner on Multichannel. >> >>>>>>>> The selection panel for >>>>>>>> >> Multichannel 3 is: Gary Thomas, >> >>>>>>>> Co-director Animate >>>>>>>> Projects; Helen Sloan, Director, >>>>>>>> >> SCAN; Peter Bonnell, Curator, >> >>>>>>>> ArtSway. >>>>>>>> Criteria/ Format of works for >>>>>>>> >> selection: Please submit your work >> >>>>>>>> for viewing >>>>>>>> on DVD. Should your piece be >>>>>>>> >> selected, we will ask you to supply >> >>>>>>>> your work >>>>>>>> as raw uncompressed files >>>>>>>> >> preferably on MiniDV, uncompressed .mpg >> >>>>>>>> or ..avi. >>>>>>>> Duration: We will accept pieces of >>>>>>>> >> any duration but please be >> >>>>>>>> aware that the >>>>>>>> screenings last up to 2 hours and >>>>>>>> >> shorter pieces will take >> >>>>>>>> preference. In >>>>>>>> exceptional circumstances we may >>>>>>>> >> be able to consider one-off >> >>>>>>>> screenings of >>>>>>>> longer pieces. Open to: artists of >>>>>>>> >> any age, in any part of the world, >> >>>>>>>> working in the format of film or >>>>>>>> >> video. >> >>>>>>>> Deadline for submitting works: >>>>>>>> >> Thursday 28 January 2010 >> >>>>>>>> Selection panel meets: Week >>>>>>>> >> beginning 8 February 2010 >> >>>>>>>> Notification of selection result: >>>>>>>> >> 26 February 2010 >> >>>>>>>> Exhibition of Multichannel 3 at >>>>>>>> >> ArtSway: 2 April - 11 April 2010 >> >>>>>>>> Contact and address to send work: >>>>>>>> >> Peter Bonnell, Curator, >> >>>>>>>> ArtSway, Station >>>>>>>> Road, Sway, SO41 6BA, UK >>>>>>>> For more information please >>>>>>>> >> contact Peter on +44 (0)1590 682260 >> >>>>>>>> (+4) or >>>>>>>> email: pe...@artsway.org.uk >>>>>>>> >> <x-msg://114/pe...@artsway.org.uk> >> >> >>>>>>>> <x-msg://79/pe...@artsway.org.uk >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <x-msg://79/pe...@artsway.org.uk>> >>>>>>>> >> <mailto:pe...@artsway.org.uk> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <x-msg://114/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <x-msg://79/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <x-msg://79/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://114/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <x-msg://79/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a >>>>>>> >> charity registered in >> >>>>>>> Scotland, number SC009201 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>> >>>>>> <x-msg://114/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >>>>>> >>>>>> <x-msg://79/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>> >>>>>> <x-msg://79/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://114/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://79/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://79/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org>> >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>>> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity >>>>> >> registered in Scotland, >> >>>>> number SC009201 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> >>>>> <x-msg://114/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>> >> <x-msg://114/NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >> >>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>> >>>> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity >>>> >> registered in Scotland, >> number SC009201 >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>> >> <mailto:NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> >> >>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
