There are two issues here, I think; in terms of pragmatic activity, it can 
be stifling, which is one reason to cut the theory out or think of it as a 
posteriori, something like that. The other issue relates human agency to a 
practical politics as well as issues of justice; Lyotard's differend comes 
into play.

Which brings up a ploy I've heard repeatedly from bad painting teachers in 
studio - looking at someone's piece and saying things like "This doesn't 
work." The painting can't respond, the odd ethos of the thing-slave is 
silenced, and the teacher isn't talking with the student, just _to_ hir or 
_at_ hir, as if an unexamined conoisseurship were the concrete order of 
the day. If the teacher says on the other hand, "This doesn't work _for 
me,_" - dialog is opened, viewership is deconstructed, etc. I've heard the 
former far more often.

- Alan


On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote:

> I thinkeverything is subject to deconstruction. But then we're back
> to ethics and pragmatics (both also admittedly deconstructible). If I
> deconstruct the idea of human agency, where does that lead ethically?
> Where does it lead artistically (in terms of a pragmatic practice)?
> Perhaps it leads to play.
>
> Here I read Deleuze as a kind of useful structuralist. He allows
> Derrida to rule the regime/strata of human language. But human
> language doesn't govern the whole show. There are dozens of other
> strata (geology, biology, cooking, the human face, etc.) that are
> also at play in the world. And any one of these strata could erupt
> beyond itself and lead to an entirely new strata.
>
> Of course Deleuze uses human language to describe this
> geophilosophical meta-structure of strata. Of course Derrida could
> deconstruct Deleuze's use of language, thus dismantling Deleuze's
> entire structuralist system. But, if we start with (or return to)
> Deleuze, Derrida remains within the strata of language, playing games
> with language, while the strata of geology (for example) continues on
> its merry way.
>
> So, to begin with Delueze is to begin with a kind of hopeful idea
> (perhaps deluded?) that humans have agency and can modulate various
> strata (within contingent limits). Where might such a world view
> pragmatically lead a practicing artist? To begin with Derrida is to
> begin with something far more cautious, guarded, rigorous, and
> precious (although no less risky -- it risks great caution). Where
> might such a "world view" [under erasure] lead a practicing artist?
> And what meta-meta-meta-criteria could you ever apply to evaluate
> which of these two practices "matters most"?
>
>
>
>> This would touch on quantum mechanics, where agency is problematic (and I
>> think on a more macroscopic scale as well). Multiple futures only makes
>> sense in a multiverse, if they're considered 'actualized' at all, and our
>> selves exist within one of course. It gets tricky, but in any case it
>> seems to me that agency itself is subject to deconstruction.
>>
>> (Or not!)
>>
>> - Alan
>>
>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote:
>>
>>>  I think Bergson's virtual is just a specific, rigorous way of
>>>  thinking about our agency in the present as it relates to the past
>>>  and the future. Some things in the virtual could happen but may never
>>>  happen. He's not talking about alternate realities or multiple
>>>  futures. That seems like we are choosing between a number of already
>>>  pre-determined paths. Instead, we are moment by moment making (or not
>>>  making) what will become the past. The virtual isn't even "recognized
>>>  potential," becauase recognized potential has already become real.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>  I agree with you here. What is the difference between Bergson's virtual,
>>>>  though, and the future?
>>>>
>>>>  - Alan
>>>>
>>>>  On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>   For me, all these terms, including 'virtual' and 'real' are rife with
>>>>>>   problems based on categoricity and ideology - for example following
>>>>>>   someone like Lingis, I think we're inscribed, that inscription
>>>>>> and culture
>>>>>>   goes all the way up and down, we're permeated, we construct (local)
>>>>>>   meaning the best we can, we find our way the best we can (sloughing 
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>   Wittgenstein or some such).
>>>>>
>>>>>   Hi Alan,
>>>>>
>>>>>   Bergson's "virtual" seems less problematic ideologically, because it
>>>>>   literally, historically hasn't happened. Once it happens (if it ever
>>>>>   does), it then gets codified, historicized, analyzed, categorized,
>>>>>   etc. Until then, who knows how it will fit in ideologically (or what
>>>>>   it even is)? This could be one argument for letting practice lead. An
>>>>>   art practice finds its way in dialogue with materials that are
>>>>>   themselves in dialogue with the world -- a different kind of dialogue
>>>>>   than philosophy's dialogue with the world.
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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