Hi Johannes,
I think Michael's concerns are valid,
>I worry if *any* vigorous critique of a successful female artist is
now going to be
>interpreted as misogyny, without a single shred of evidence to back
this claim up.
It also be construed as an exploitative tactic if the dialogue is
diverted due to the fear being sexist, because the artist just so
happens to be female. I'm not a fan of Margaret Thatcher, and I assure
you it has nothing to do with her gender, it's about values, politics,
beliefs and many different issues relating to society.
wishing you well.
marc
I think you've slightly got the wrong end of the stick here Johannes -
Annie was defending MA against our schoolchild snickering.
I worry if *any* vigorous critique of a successful female artist is
now going to be interpreted as misogyny , without a single shred of
evidence to back this claim up.
Just in case though let me even up my position - I'll propose the male
equivalent -an artist who likewise reeks of faux piety and takes
themselves far too seriously - Bill Viola - yuck, pass the sick bag.
Up with tastelessness! Art is not sacrosanct, is not so fragile we
have to wrap it and its proponents up in cotton wool...
michael
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Johannes Birringer <[email protected]>
*To:* NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<[email protected]>
*Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2014 4:04 PM
*Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Abramovic 512 Hours
dear all
somewhat surprising to see the relative heat of the discussion on a
performance artist and her 512 Hours exhibition at the Serpentine,
and thus I wonder really what provoked the sustained critique of her
practice here, in these pages; maybe Annie's abhorrence?
I went to see the performance in July, and was prepared to be critical
and ended up have my own critical thoughts, even wrote some notes
down somewhere, and probably I had become all too apprehensive of the
hype surrounding her MoMA show, back a while, and the high handedness
of the film then released about her.
The thing with the dog i find tasteless and silly, and bad satire if
that at all; and rather than arguing about
satire, or the "power systems" in place to make history happen (and I
do read Patrick as stating his respect for her work of the 70s and 80s and
90s, and three decades of live art, often on the edges, for me gained
her nothing but admiration, even if I may have reservations about the
spiritual
or metaphysical path she engineered around 2002 --- I remember walking
over to her House with the Ocean View installation, and that was not
long after
the events of 9/11 in New York and noted a shift, and she must have
noted it too and probably realized she could do Rothko Chapel stuff --
and then turned into the odd self-presencing durational rituals etc),
I really wondered, Annie, whether what we are reading now
is a strange twist where (gender politics?) bashing a successful
female artist whose work definitely will have had resonance, who was
able to show work in major museums, is becoming de rigueur
(I guess Carolee Schneemann, Cindy Sherman, Kara Walker, Adrian Piper
next?).
Johannes Birringer
>>
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 7:28 AM, marc garrett
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
Well, Marina Abramovic''s work will survive --- however, not because
of quality but because of the power systems in place to make history
happen for artists who adhere to the role and myth of genius, it is
all part of the inside joke for those who rule the 'propriety based'
art world.
Or her work will survive in its cultural resonance because even in the
smallest intervention, before fame made her an icon, there was
sufficient strength and luminosity to her work to affect people. Such
resonance by no means implies a pile of handsome coffee table books or
a sheaf of academic papers---it only suggests that art changes people,
in some measure, directly, in their lives.
-- Paul
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 7:28 AM, marc garrett
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
Hi Michael & Annie,
> your kindness does you credit but I do think there absolutely has to be
>space for humour, even sharply parodic or satirical humour in art. If the
>work is solid it will survive it.
Well, Marina Abramovic''s work will survive --- however, not because
of quality but because of the power systems in place to make history
happen for artists who adhere to the role and myth of genius, it is
all part of the inside joke for those who rule the 'propriety based'
art world.
>Ironically the various satirical japes she has engendered help to
>confirm her in this role.
Sadly, this may be true ;-(
wishing you well.
marc
> HI Annie
> your kindness does you credit but I do think there absolutely has to
be space for humour, even sharply parodic or satirical humour in art.
If the work is solid it will survive it.
> An interesting question is why MA and not you. I would venture:
> (1) You are deeply serious about your work but you don't give off
the aroma of pious smugness which I'm afraid for me MA does.
> (2) Although you set up rigorous structures in your work you are
open to surprise, to human frailty and intervention ( indeed I'd argue
that it is one of your central themes) - you *trust* people - MA shuts
out the intervention of others in her Serpentine piece - people have
to give up phones, cameras, whatever at the door. This particular
response ( the pug piece) comes as no surprise to me. I had given some
thought to how one might assert the rights of the audience ( including
those of other artists -the right to record, to think contrary
thoguhts and act upon them &c) vis a vis the Sepentine performance
but couldn't think of anything that either wouldn't involve me getting
arrested or would cost too much.
> (3) MA is an art superstar/celebrity. My starting point is that
someone in this extraordinarily unnatural & privileged position has to
repeatedly prove that they are worth it. Ironically the various
satirical japes she has engendered help to confirm her in this role.
> cheers
> michael
> From: Annie Abrahams <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] MARINA ABRAMOPUG the genius!
> I wouldn't like to be made fun of like this, would you?
>
> M A made some errors, but the performance this is referring too was
good as far as I am concerned
> Best
> Annie
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:27 PM, helen varley jamieson
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> it's great :)
>
> On 21/08/14 11:19 AM, marc garrett wrote:
>> MARINA ABRAMOPUG
>>
>> The 'official' genius performance artist at Serpentine | best
show yet ;-)
>>
>> g
>>
>> More...
>> http://go.shr.lc/1w2Alcp
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
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<mailto:[email protected]>>
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>
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<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
HI Annie
your kindness does you credit but I do think there absolutely has to
be space for humour, even sharply parodic or satirical humour in art.
If the work is solid it will survive it.
An interesting question is why MA and not you. I would venture:
(1) You are deeply serious about your work but you don't give off the
aroma of pious smugness which I'm afraid for me MA does.
(2) Although you set up rigorous structures in your work you are open
to surprise, to human frailty and intervention ( indeed I'd argue that
it is one of your central themes) - you *trust* people - MA shuts out
the intervention of others in her Serpentine piece - people have to
give up phones, cameras, whatever at the door. This particular
response ( the pug piece) comes as no surprise to me. I had given some
thought to how one might assert the rights of the audience ( including
those of other artists -the right to record, to think contrary
thoguhts and act upon them &c) vis a vis the Sepentine performance
but couldn't think of anything that either wouldn't involve me getting
arrested or would cost too much.
(3) MA is an art superstar/celebrity. My starting point is that
someone in this extraordinarily unnatural & privileged position has to
repeatedly prove that they are worth it. Ironically the various
satirical japes she has engendered help to confirm her in this role.
cheers
michael
________________________________
From: Annie Abrahams <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] MARINA ABRAMOPUG the genius!
I wouldn't like to be made fun of like this, would you?
M A made some errors, but the performance this is referring too was
good as far as I am concerned
Best
Annie
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:27 PM, helen varley jamieson
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
wrote:
it's great :)
On 21/08/14 11:19 AM, marc garrett wrote:
MARINA ABRAMOPUG
The 'official' genius performance artist at Serpentine | best show yet ;-)
[g]
More...
http://go.shr.lc/1w2Alcp
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NetBehaviour mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
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