I just tried to see the show but had to give up as the queues were 3
hours long, and they told us our daughter is too young to come in.
Seems a very popular show though.
dave
On 22 August 2014 18:01, Johannes Birringer
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
dear Marc, Michael, all
yes, you may be right Michael that I did not fully sense what
Annie also implied when she expressed her concern, and what you
were stating as your worry now (that one may end up being accused
of sexism), though I am probably closer, in my affinities, to go
with Paul's comment on the strength and resonance of Abramovic's
body of work over the years, than with your advocacy of
tastelessness. I don't think i was singing praises of
sacrosanct art, on the contrary. And, Marc, I also see you point
but would still argue that you can't separate Thatcher's politics
from gender and the way gender was performed in that arena.
Michael's or your call for a vigorous critique seems to be
directed at how the icon MA now gets played out by the
institutions or how art celebrities (who may or may not take
themselves too seriously) use the market or the institutions to
their ends which artists, I thought, always wanted to do and have
done (Rothko I cannot say, but the Chapel they built for him in
Houston is a pious chapel, all right; Viola's early work I liked
a lot, Richter's early work as well, while Jeff Koons I always
considered tasteless trash kitsch, etc). But how then does the
critique play into the hands of the handlers and PR agents of art
and capital?
As to the "rights of the audience," I was not deprived of any of
my rights at Serpentine, not had to give up my phone or notebook.
I had to wait in a queue, but that I have done on other
occasions. No interventions were shut out, I think Abramovic
welcomes them. The framers may not, but that can be intervened
against. I do remember being asked, at the door when entering, to
be respectful. (same happened when I visited the Prado)(same
happens, implicitly, with Miss Revolutionary Idol Berserker, a
Japanese shock troupe currently performing their "Noise &
Darkness" on the continent, an exquisitely rambunctious and
tasteless show!).
Johannes
[Paul Hertz schreibt]
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 3:36 PM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] MARINA ABRAMOPUG the genius!
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 7:28 AM, marc garrett
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
Well, Marina Abramovic''s work will survive --- however, not
because of quality but because of the power systems in place to
make history happen for artists who adhere to the role and myth
of genius, it is all part of the inside joke for those who rule
the 'propriety based' art world.
Or her work will survive in its cultural resonance because even
in the smallest intervention, before fame made her an icon, there
was sufficient strength and luminosity to her work to affect
people. Such resonance by no means implies a pile of handsome
coffee table books or a sheaf of academic papers---it only
suggests that art changes people, in some measure, directly, in
their lives.
-- Paul
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 7:28 AM, marc garrett
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
Hi Michael & Annie,
> your kindness does you credit but I do think there absolutely
has to be
>space for humour, even sharply parodic or satirical humour in
art. If the
>work is solid it will survive it.
Well, Marina Abramovic''s work will survive --- however, not
because of quality but because of the power systems in place to
make history happen for artists who adhere to the role and myth
of genius, it is all part of the inside joke for those who rule
the 'propriety based' art world.
>Ironically the various satirical japes she has engendered help to
>confirm her in this role.
Sadly, this may be true ;-(
wishing you well.
marc
> HI Annie
> your kindness does you credit but I do think there absolutely
has to be space for humour, even sharply parodic or satirical
humour in art. If the work is solid it will survive it.
> An interesting question is why MA and not you. I would venture:
> (1) You are deeply serious about your work but you don't give
off the aroma of pious smugness which I'm afraid for me MA does.
> (2) Although you set up rigorous structures in your work you
are open to surprise, to human frailty and intervention ( indeed
I'd argue that it is one of your central themes) - you *trust*
people - MA shuts out the intervention of others in her
Serpentine piece - people have to give up phones, cameras,
whatever at the door. This particular response ( the pug piece)
comes as no surprise to me. I had given some thought to how one
might assert the rights of the audience ( including those of
other artists -the right to record, to think contrary thoguhts
and act upon them &c) vis a vis the Sepentine performance but
couldn't think of anything that either wouldn't involve me
getting arrested or would cost too much.
> (3) MA is an art superstar/celebrity. My starting point is that
someone in this extraordinarily unnatural & privileged position
has to repeatedly prove that they are worth it. Ironically the
various satirical japes she has engendered help to confirm her in
this role.
> cheers
> michael
> From: Annie Abrahams <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] MARINA ABRAMOPUG the genius!
> I wouldn't like to be made fun of like this, would you?
>
> M A made some errors, but the performance this is referring too
was good as far as I am concerned
> Best
> Annie
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:27 PM, helen varley jamieson
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> it's great :)
>
> On 21/08/14 11:19 AM, marc garrett wrote:
>> MARINA ABRAMOPUG
>>
>> The 'official' genius performance artist at Serpentine |
best show yet ;-)
>>
>> g
>>
>> More...
>> http://go.shr.lc/1w2Alcp
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
HI Annie
your kindness does you credit but I do think there absolutely has
to be space for humour, even sharply parodic or satirical humour
in art. If the work is solid it will survive it.
An interesting question is why MA and not you. I would venture:
(1) You are deeply serious about your work but you don't give off
the aroma of pious smugness which I'm afraid for me MA does.
(2) Although you set up rigorous structures in your work you are
open to surprise, to human frailty and intervention ( indeed I'd
argue that it is one of your central themes) - you *trust* people
- MA shuts out the intervention of others in her Serpentine piece
- people have to give up phones, cameras, whatever at the door.
This particular response ( the pug piece) comes as no surprise to
me. I had given some thought to how one might assert the rights
of the audience ( including those of other artists -the right to
record, to think contrary thoguhts and act upon them &c) vis a
vis the Sepentine performance but couldn't think of anything that
either wouldn't involve me getting arrested or would cost too much.
(3) MA is an art superstar/celebrity. My starting point is that
someone in this extraordinarily unnatural & privileged position
has to repeatedly prove that they are worth it. Ironically the
various satirical japes she has engendered help to confirm her in
this role.
cheers
michael
________________________________
From: Annie Abrahams <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] MARINA ABRAMOPUG the genius!
I wouldn't like to be made fun of like this, would you?
M A made some errors, but the performance this is referring too
was good as far as I am concerned
Best
Annie
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:27 PM, helen varley jamieson
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
it's great :)
On 21/08/14 11:19 AM, marc garrett wrote:
MARINA ABRAMOPUG
The 'official' genius performance artist at Serpentine | best
show yet ;-)
[g]
More...
http://go.shr.lc/1w2Alcp
