I just tried to see the show but had to give up as the queues were 3 hours long, and they told us our daughter is too young to come in. Seems a very popular show though. dave
On 22 August 2014 18:01, Johannes Birringer <[email protected] > wrote: > dear Marc, Michael, all > > yes, you may be right Michael that I did not fully sense what Annie also > implied when she expressed her concern, and what you were stating as your > worry now (that one may end up being accused of sexism), though I am > probably closer, in my affinities, to go with Paul's comment on the > strength and resonance of Abramovic's body of work over the years, than > with your advocacy of tastelessness. I don't think i was singing praises > of sacrosanct art, on the contrary. And, Marc, I also see you point but > would still argue that you can't separate Thatcher's politics from gender > and the way gender was performed in that arena. > Michael's or your call for a vigorous critique seems to be directed at > how the icon MA now gets played out by the institutions or how art > celebrities (who may or may not take themselves too seriously) use the > market or the institutions to their ends which artists, I thought, always > wanted to do and have done (Rothko I cannot say, but the Chapel they built > for him in Houston is a pious chapel, all right; Viola's early work I > liked a lot, Richter's early work as well, while Jeff Koons I always > considered tasteless trash kitsch, etc). But how then does the critique > play into the hands of the handlers and PR agents of art and capital? > As to the "rights of the audience," I was not deprived of any of my > rights at Serpentine, not had to give up my phone or notebook. I had to > wait in a queue, but that I have done on other occasions. No interventions > were shut out, I think Abramovic welcomes them. The framers may not, but > that can be intervened against. I do remember being asked, at the door when > entering, to be respectful. (same happened when I visited the Prado)(same > happens, implicitly, with Miss Revolutionary Idol Berserker, a Japanese > shock troupe currently performing their "Noise & Darkness" on the > continent, an exquisitely rambunctious and tasteless show!). > > Johannes > > > > [Paul Hertz schreibt] > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 3:36 PM > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] MARINA ABRAMOPUG the genius! > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 7:28 AM, marc garrett < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > Well, Marina Abramović’s work will survive — however, not because of > quality but because of the power systems in place to make history happen > for artists who adhere to the role and myth of genius, it is all part of > the inside joke for those who rule the ‘propriety based’ art world. > > Or her work will survive in its cultural resonance because even in the > smallest intervention, before fame made her an icon, there was sufficient > strength and luminosity to her work to affect people. Such resonance by no > means implies a pile of handsome coffee table books or a sheaf of academic > papers—it only suggests that art changes people, in some measure, directly, > in their lives. > > -- Paul > > > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 7:28 AM, marc garrett < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > Hi Michael & Annie, > > > > your kindness does you credit but I do think there absolutely has to be > >space for humour, even sharply parodic or satirical humour in art. If the > >work is solid it will survive it. > > Well, Marina Abramović’s work will survive — however, not because of > quality but because of the power systems in place to make history happen > for artists who adhere to the role and myth of genius, it is all part of > the inside joke for those who rule the ‘propriety based’ art world. > > > >Ironically the various satirical japes she has engendered help to > >confirm her in this role. > > Sadly, this may be true ;-( > > wishing you well. > > marc > > > > HI Annie > > your kindness does you credit but I do think there absolutely has to be > space for humour, even sharply parodic or satirical humour in art. If the > work is solid it will survive it. > > An interesting question is why MA and not you. I would venture: > > (1) You are deeply serious about your work but you don't give off the > aroma of pious smugness which I'm afraid for me MA does. > > (2) Although you set up rigorous structures in your work you are open to > surprise, to human frailty and intervention ( indeed I'd argue that it is > one of your central themes) - you *trust* people - MA shuts out the > intervention of others in her Serpentine piece - people have to give up > phones, cameras, whatever at the door. This particular response ( the pug > piece) comes as no surprise to me. I had given some thought to how one > might assert the rights of the audience ( including those of other artists > -the right to record, to think contrary thoguhts and act upon them &c) vis > a vis the Sepentine performance but couldn't think of anything that either > wouldn't involve me getting arrested or would cost too much. > > (3) MA is an art superstar/celebrity. My starting point is that someone > in this extraordinarily unnatural & privileged position has to repeatedly > prove that they are worth it. Ironically the various satirical japes she > has engendered help to confirm her in this role. > > cheers > > michael > > > > From: Annie Abrahams <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> > > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity < > [email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:22 PM > > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] MARINA ABRAMOPUG the genius! > > I wouldn't like to be made fun of like this, would you? > > > > M A made some errors, but the performance this is referring too was good > as far as I am concerned > > Best > > Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:27 PM, helen varley jamieson < > [email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > > > it's great :) > > > > On 21/08/14 11:19 AM, marc garrett wrote: > >> MARINA ABRAMOPUG > >> > >> The 'official' genius performance artist at Serpentine | best show > yet ;-) > >> > >> g > >> > >> More... > >> http://go.shr.lc/1w2Alcp > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NetBehaviour mailing list > >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NetBehaviour mailing list > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NetBehaviour mailing list > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > HI Annie > your kindness does you credit but I do think there absolutely has to be > space for humour, even sharply parodic or satirical humour in art. If the > work is solid it will survive it. > An interesting question is why MA and not you. I would venture: > (1) You are deeply serious about your work but you don't give off the > aroma of pious smugness which I'm afraid for me MA does. > (2) Although you set up rigorous structures in your work you are open to > surprise, to human frailty and intervention ( indeed I'd argue that it is > one of your central themes) - you *trust* people - MA shuts out the > intervention of others in her Serpentine piece - people have to give up > phones, cameras, whatever at the door. This particular response ( the pug > piece) comes as no surprise to me. I had given some thought to how one > might assert the rights of the audience ( including those of other artists > -the right to record, to think contrary thoguhts and act upon them &c) vis > a vis the Sepentine performance but couldn't think of anything that either > wouldn't involve me getting arrested or would cost too much. > (3) MA is an art superstar/celebrity. My starting point is that someone in > this extraordinarily unnatural & privileged position has to repeatedly > prove that they are worth it. Ironically the various satirical japes she > has engendered help to confirm her in this role. > cheers > michael > > ________________________________ > From: Annie Abrahams <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity < > [email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:22 PM > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] MARINA ABRAMOPUG the genius! > > I wouldn't like to be made fun of like this, would you? > > M A made some errors, but the performance this is referring too was good > as far as I am concerned > > Best > Annie > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:27 PM, helen varley jamieson < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > it's great :) > > On 21/08/14 11:19 AM, marc garrett wrote: > MARINA ABRAMOPUG > > The 'official' genius performance artist at Serpentine | best show yet ;-) > > [g] > > More... > http://go.shr.lc/1w2Alcp > > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > -- > ----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| --- > http://paulhertz.net/ > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner<http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is > believed to be clean. > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >
_______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
