hi Randall, I am not necesarrily asking for more, better media, for more livelyness, I am not sure I want more ... I would like a content re-de-placement, more of the processes going on (artistic and organisational) and les about results and "look what I have done" I would like that there would be more slowness, more attention, more time for open reflexion on what has been done, less representation and for now i see that still more in the mailinglist than on the social media. I think we should reinvent reinvest mailinglists! Netbehaviour first of all.
see you Annie On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Randall Packer <rpac...@zakros.com> wrote: > I’m not sure where to set into this thread, which has become > multi-threaded in all sorts of interesting directions. > > Regarding Geert: without going into a complete analysis, it’s not clear to > me that he is aware of the many museums in the US and the around the world > that are employing social media and what is called “user-generated content” > in all sorts of compelling ways that invite engagement and social change. I > have taught courses in the Johns Hopkins University Museum Studies program > where the students are deeply involved with museum-based social and > “visitor engagement,” to use another museum term. I believe the interview > does have a few absolutes that have not been thoroughly researched, > although I have the utmost respect for Geert and his critique of > corporate-based social media: it’s just not fair to museums that are making > striking progress, and of course the many alternative arts organizations, > maker-faires, and hack-a-thons around the world that are incorporating > socially-based forms of art and science. > > Regarding Annie’s concern for place: I agree, we need the means of > interaction that while remote, give us a more real-time, visual, media-rich > form of interaction and engagement. I enjoy the ease and simplicity of an > email list, but there are times you want to see faces, hear voices, trade > gestures, communicate with sound, all of which is near impossible in this > medium as a live experience. There is no replacing the live: we need to > embed the real-time into our networked interactions, which for many of us > here has been at the heart of our artistic work and research. We are all > nodes on a network, and we need to find ways to engage forms of live > connectivity that are as easy as sending an email. > > Randall > From: <netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org> on behalf of Annie Abrahams > Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 10:55 AM > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] An interview with Geert Lovink > > I have been to a shop to buy some coffee beans and while riding my bike, I > thought : wasn't I a bit nasty to furtherfield/netbehaviour? When back I > found some reactions that reassured me, but > I had been thinking that somehow I was a bit sour on > furtherfield/netbehaviour and I asked myself why, what would you like to be > different, to change? > A small idea popped up : I miss the connexion between furtherfield live in > the park (where I imagine a lot of the work is happening) and furtherfield > online - especially netbehaviour. Of course there are the announcements, > info on the works showed of people I know online, but I miss thoughts by > these actual artists who showed, worked with the real place on what is > going on, on how the relation is constructed, of what their work does when > place in a gallery place. I miss personal stories on this on netbehaviour. > > xxx > Annie > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Pall Thayer <pallt...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Fascinating read. On gallery and museum embrace of post-internet art, I >> think there are two things going on. First of all, it's new and it's >> acceptance in galleries and museums is probably not much greater than >> internet art's acceptance was when it was new. Second of all, most of it >> takes forms which galleries and museums are familiar with, i.e. physical >> objects, prints, videos, etc. This is a far more attractive fit for >> commercial art galleries and doesn't pose any significant archiving issues >> for museums. At least, not ones that they haven't encountered before. >> >> Pall >> >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:26 AM marc garrett <marc.garre...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Paul, Dave, Annie & all, >>> >>> Regarding Geert's interview -- I actually agree with most of what he >>> says. In fact, I tend to agree with most of his ideas and writings. >>> >>> I think as a group, we're in tune (usually coincidentally with his >>> reflections) but, living through them within a grounded context, which is >>> of our everyday life experience and as part of surviving as an artist led >>> group in a neoliberalist dominated culture. >>> >>> The audience he's talking to is an e-flux audience, and I think e-flux >>> are part of an neoliberalist, elite establishment, so it's positive he is >>> discussing these issues to its audience. >>> >>> Although, Paul has mentioned already things have been getting better and >>> there is evidence of things gettign better. I would say that's true in some >>> ways, but it may also be true that some of us have got older and into power >>> and so able to support media art and net art more these days. And before >>> this was not the case ;-) >>> >>> Wishing you well. >>> >>> >>> marc >>> >>> >>> On 30 September 2015 at 14:07, Paul Hertz <igno...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Well, happy to post polemics, it's a kind of a hobby. :^}. >>>> >>>> I think there has been a tendency for mainstream curators to approach >>>> more recent digitally-mediated works as if they were in effect a sort of >>>> hybrid old media, while still neglecting both historical and current "pure" >>>> digital media. This has meant that certain kinds of digital hard copy >>>> (modded photographic prints, collage and drawings, and even 3D printing == >>>> "post-digital") can be welcomed while the internet as a platform is >>>> generally ignored. I don't have any more evidence for this than >>>> observation, and I have felt that the situation for digital art was >>>> improving over the last ten years. OTOH, I can readily understand the >>>> impatience. >>>> >>>> -- Paul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 7:56 AM, dave miller <dave.miller...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think Geert is probably correct though - seems to me the art >>>>> "establishment" aren't interested in internet/ digital art, though maybe >>>>> they have a different view of it from us on here. The art world remains a >>>>> mystery to me, so I may well be wrong. Thank god for Furtherfield, and I >>>>> would love to know who are the curators 'not' scared of it. >>>>> >>>>> What's the ‘post-digital’ bandwagon? >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> On 30 September 2015 at 13:48, Annie Abrahams <bram....@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> don't be small, don't think sectarism >>>>>> Geert is closer to "us" than most "others" >>>>>> get in contact with him, explain and connect, use his critical energy >>>>>> >>>>>> invite him to curate, to build, to discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> xxx >>>>>> Annie >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:40 PM, NIKOS V <nikos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I see the relevance in this approach, allthough I have to say its >>>>>>> allready to late for that criticism no? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Moreover, is he really interested in art? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If yes, as Marc says, where are the references and the names ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And why is Venice Biennial important?To whom???? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2015-09-30 15:36 GMT+03:00 marc.garrett < >>>>>>> marc.garr...@furtherfield.org>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Paul, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Geert needs to be more specific and highlight the curators who are >>>>>>>> 'not' scared and who have been showing technical artwork such as >>>>>>>> Furtherifeld & others - his words are not grounded and are too >>>>>>>> absolute, >>>>>>>> they do not reflect reality... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> marc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://conversations.e-flux.com/t/geert-lovink-on-social-media-and-the-arts/2581 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "The absence at the 2015 Venice Bienale of digital arts and >>>>>>>> internet works says it all. Curators are afraid to admit they are >>>>>>>> clueless >>>>>>>> and continue their ignorant attitude towards art that deals with the >>>>>>>> digital in a direct matter (while checking their smart phone). Everyone >>>>>>>> jumps on the ‘post-digital’ bandwagon because that’s cute and safe. >>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>> Curators and critics are more than happy to embrace the race, gender, >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> the anthroposcene (whatever that is), but are blind for the >>>>>>>> techno-politics >>>>>>>> of the equipment and media they are using themselves so intensely. The >>>>>>>> contradictions are becoming absurd. Video was the last technology they >>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>> to deal with, but then it stopped." >>>>>>>> — Geert Lovink >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> // >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> enjoy, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Paul >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> ----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| --- >>>>>>>> http://paulhertz.net/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing >>>>>>>> listNetBehaviour@netbehaviour.orghttp://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> *26 09 14h* *vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger*, une >>>>>> *conférence performéefestival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue >>>>>> <http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas >>>>>> de Prunet, Montpellier >>>>>> >>>>>> aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *besides, *online performances *On Object Agency * >>>>>> with Martina Ruhsam >>>>>> *archives* (text, script, video, images) >>>>>> bram.org/besides/ >>>>>> *Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on >>>>>> *Furtherfield* >>>>>> >>>>>> furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams >>>>>> <http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams> >>>>>> <https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/08/13/ed-atkins-remediating/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <http://turbulence.org/commissions/besides/> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| --- >>>> http://paulhertz.net/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >> -- >> P Thayer, Artist >> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> > > > > -- > > *26 09 14h* *vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger*, une > *conférence performéefestival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue > <http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas de > Prunet, Montpellier > > aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ > > > *besides, *online performances *On Object Agency * > with Martina Ruhsam > *archives* (text, script, video, images) > bram.org/besides/ > *Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on > *Furtherfield* > > furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams > <http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams> > <https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/08/13/ed-atkins-remediating/> > > > <http://turbulence.org/commissions/besides/> > _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > -- *26 09 14h* *vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger*, une *conférence performéefestival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue <http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas de Prunet, Montpellier aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ *besides, *online performances *On Object Agency * with Martina Ruhsam *archives* (text, script, video, images) bram.org/besides/ *Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on *Furtherfield* furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams <http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams> <https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/08/13/ed-atkins-remediating/> <http://turbulence.org/commissions/besides/>
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