I think basically we all need to meet up more often! On 30 Sep 2015 22:11, "Annie Abrahams" <bram....@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi Randall, > > I am not necesarrily asking for more, better media, for more livelyness, I > am not sure I want more ... > I would like a content re-de-placement, more of the processes going on > (artistic and organisational) and les about results and "look what I have > done" I would like that there would be more slowness, more attention, more > time for open reflexion on what has been done, less representation and for > now i see that still more in the mailinglist than on the social media. I > think we should reinvent reinvest mailinglists! Netbehaviour first of all. > > see you > Annie > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Randall Packer <rpac...@zakros.com> > wrote: > >> I’m not sure where to set into this thread, which has become >> multi-threaded in all sorts of interesting directions. >> >> Regarding Geert: without going into a complete analysis, it’s not clear >> to me that he is aware of the many museums in the US and the around the >> world that are employing social media and what is called “user-generated >> content” in all sorts of compelling ways that invite engagement and social >> change. I have taught courses in the Johns Hopkins University Museum >> Studies program where the students are deeply involved with museum-based >> social and “visitor engagement,” to use another museum term. I believe the >> interview does have a few absolutes that have not been thoroughly >> researched, although I have the utmost respect for Geert and his critique >> of corporate-based social media: it’s just not fair to museums that are >> making striking progress, and of course the many alternative arts >> organizations, maker-faires, and hack-a-thons around the world that are >> incorporating socially-based forms of art and science. >> >> Regarding Annie’s concern for place: I agree, we need the means of >> interaction that while remote, give us a more real-time, visual, media-rich >> form of interaction and engagement. I enjoy the ease and simplicity of an >> email list, but there are times you want to see faces, hear voices, trade >> gestures, communicate with sound, all of which is near impossible in this >> medium as a live experience. There is no replacing the live: we need to >> embed the real-time into our networked interactions, which for many of us >> here has been at the heart of our artistic work and research. We are all >> nodes on a network, and we need to find ways to engage forms of live >> connectivity that are as easy as sending an email. >> >> Randall >> From: <netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org> on behalf of Annie Abrahams >> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity >> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 10:55 AM >> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity >> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] An interview with Geert Lovink >> >> I have been to a shop to buy some coffee beans and while riding my bike, >> I thought : wasn't I a bit nasty to furtherfield/netbehaviour? When back I >> found some reactions that reassured me, but >> I had been thinking that somehow I was a bit sour on >> furtherfield/netbehaviour and I asked myself why, what would you like to be >> different, to change? >> A small idea popped up : I miss the connexion between furtherfield live >> in the park (where I imagine a lot of the work is happening) and >> furtherfield online - especially netbehaviour. Of course there are the >> announcements, info on the works showed of people I know online, but I miss >> thoughts by these actual artists who showed, worked with the real place on >> what is going on, on how the relation is constructed, of what their work >> does when place in a gallery place. I miss personal stories on this on >> netbehaviour. >> >> xxx >> Annie >> >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Pall Thayer <pallt...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Fascinating read. On gallery and museum embrace of post-internet art, I >>> think there are two things going on. First of all, it's new and it's >>> acceptance in galleries and museums is probably not much greater than >>> internet art's acceptance was when it was new. Second of all, most of it >>> takes forms which galleries and museums are familiar with, i.e. physical >>> objects, prints, videos, etc. This is a far more attractive fit for >>> commercial art galleries and doesn't pose any significant archiving issues >>> for museums. At least, not ones that they haven't encountered before. >>> >>> Pall >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:26 AM marc garrett <marc.garre...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Paul, Dave, Annie & all, >>>> >>>> Regarding Geert's interview -- I actually agree with most of what he >>>> says. In fact, I tend to agree with most of his ideas and writings. >>>> >>>> I think as a group, we're in tune (usually coincidentally with his >>>> reflections) but, living through them within a grounded context, which is >>>> of our everyday life experience and as part of surviving as an artist led >>>> group in a neoliberalist dominated culture. >>>> >>>> The audience he's talking to is an e-flux audience, and I think e-flux >>>> are part of an neoliberalist, elite establishment, so it's positive he is >>>> discussing these issues to its audience. >>>> >>>> Although, Paul has mentioned already things have been getting better >>>> and there is evidence of things gettign better. I would say that's true in >>>> some ways, but it may also be true that some of us have got older and into >>>> power and so able to support media art and net art more these days. And >>>> before this was not the case ;-) >>>> >>>> Wishing you well. >>>> >>>> >>>> marc >>>> >>>> >>>> On 30 September 2015 at 14:07, Paul Hertz <igno...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well, happy to post polemics, it's a kind of a hobby. :^}. >>>>> >>>>> I think there has been a tendency for mainstream curators to approach >>>>> more recent digitally-mediated works as if they were in effect a sort of >>>>> hybrid old media, while still neglecting both historical and current >>>>> "pure" >>>>> digital media. This has meant that certain kinds of digital hard copy >>>>> (modded photographic prints, collage and drawings, and even 3D printing == >>>>> "post-digital") can be welcomed while the internet as a platform is >>>>> generally ignored. I don't have any more evidence for this than >>>>> observation, and I have felt that the situation for digital art was >>>>> improving over the last ten years. OTOH, I can readily understand the >>>>> impatience. >>>>> >>>>> -- Paul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 7:56 AM, dave miller <dave.miller...@gmail.com >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think Geert is probably correct though - seems to me the art >>>>>> "establishment" aren't interested in internet/ digital art, though maybe >>>>>> they have a different view of it from us on here. The art world remains >>>>>> a >>>>>> mystery to me, so I may well be wrong. Thank god for Furtherfield, and I >>>>>> would love to know who are the curators 'not' scared of it. >>>>>> >>>>>> What's the ‘post-digital’ bandwagon? >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> On 30 September 2015 at 13:48, Annie Abrahams <bram....@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> don't be small, don't think sectarism >>>>>>> Geert is closer to "us" than most "others" >>>>>>> get in contact with him, explain and connect, use his critical energy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> invite him to curate, to build, to discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> xxx >>>>>>> Annie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:40 PM, NIKOS V <nikos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I see the relevance in this approach, allthough I have to say its >>>>>>>> allready to late for that criticism no? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Moreover, is he really interested in art? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If yes, as Marc says, where are the references and the names ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And why is Venice Biennial important?To whom???? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2015-09-30 15:36 GMT+03:00 marc.garrett < >>>>>>>> marc.garr...@furtherfield.org>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Paul, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Geert needs to be more specific and highlight the curators who are >>>>>>>>> 'not' scared and who have been showing technical artwork such as >>>>>>>>> Furtherifeld & others - his words are not grounded and are too >>>>>>>>> absolute, >>>>>>>>> they do not reflect reality... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> marc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://conversations.e-flux.com/t/geert-lovink-on-social-media-and-the-arts/2581 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "The absence at the 2015 Venice Bienale of digital arts and >>>>>>>>> internet works says it all. Curators are afraid to admit they are >>>>>>>>> clueless >>>>>>>>> and continue their ignorant attitude towards art that deals with the >>>>>>>>> digital in a direct matter (while checking their smart phone). >>>>>>>>> Everyone >>>>>>>>> jumps on the ‘post-digital’ bandwagon because that’s cute and safe. >>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>> Curators and critics are more than happy to embrace the race, gender, >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> the anthroposcene (whatever that is), but are blind for the >>>>>>>>> techno-politics >>>>>>>>> of the equipment and media they are using themselves so intensely. The >>>>>>>>> contradictions are becoming absurd. Video was the last technology >>>>>>>>> they had >>>>>>>>> to deal with, but then it stopped." >>>>>>>>> — Geert Lovink >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> // >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> enjoy, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Paul >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> ----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| --- >>>>>>>>> http://paulhertz.net/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing >>>>>>>>> listNetBehaviour@netbehaviour.orghttp://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *26 09 14h* *vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger*, une >>>>>>> *conférence performéefestival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue >>>>>>> <http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas >>>>>>> de Prunet, Montpellier >>>>>>> >>>>>>> aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *besides, *online performances *On Object Agency * >>>>>>> with Martina Ruhsam >>>>>>> *archives* (text, script, video, images) >>>>>>> bram.org/besides/ >>>>>>> *Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on >>>>>>> *Furtherfield* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams >>>>>>> <http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams> >>>>>>> <https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/08/13/ed-atkins-remediating/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <http://turbulence.org/commissions/besides/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| --- >>>>> http://paulhertz.net/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>> >>> -- >>> P Thayer, Artist >>> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> *26 09 14h* *vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger*, une >> *conférence performéefestival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue >> <http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas de >> Prunet, Montpellier >> >> aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ >> >> >> *besides, *online performances *On Object Agency * >> with Martina Ruhsam >> *archives* (text, script, video, images) >> bram.org/besides/ >> *Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on >> *Furtherfield* >> >> furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams >> <http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams> >> <https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/08/13/ed-atkins-remediating/> >> >> >> <http://turbulence.org/commissions/besides/> >> _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> > > > > -- > > *26 09 14h* *vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger*, une > *conférence performéefestival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue > <http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas de > Prunet, Montpellier > > aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ > > > *besides, *online performances *On Object Agency * > with Martina Ruhsam > *archives* (text, script, video, images) > bram.org/besides/ > *Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on > *Furtherfield* > > furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams > <http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams> > <https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/08/13/ed-atkins-remediating/> > > > <http://turbulence.org/commissions/besides/> > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >
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