Hi Ruth, just you ... I think it might be a good idea to set up a meeting with those who want to continue this conversation. Where? That's up to Ruth and Marc I think. I'll come whereever they go. (and then I decided to write to you only Ruth) I want to be bothered less and less with testing new things, but if it's important, like staying connected to furtherfield, I will make an effort. It's a political decision and I think you should decide wether to follow Randall's adobe or Rob's suggestion (the last one makes me afraid, bucause most things Rob proposes are complicated - but if he could make it "easy" I guess it would be fine and a nice experiment. I can also understand it if you don't want to have such an online-live conversation now. Anyway my volunteering to be a "host" on the mailinglist stays, just tell me who and when to introduce ... (I could also ask others to be hosts, but I guess it would be better to wait until the situation of where you will go will be a bit clearer) most important question maybe Who wants to be actively involved?
bye bye Annie I'll have to be bothered with testing etc, because I'll have to find a new streaming interface (testing combination of opentok (is this relaiable? - I don't ask you Ruth :)) and openbroadcasting, and then find a strong server). maybe in january we will try to make it a common project with OUDEIS., maybe On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 12:41 PM, ruth catlow <ruth.cat...@furtherfield.org> wrote: > Great point and idea Aharon! > > >Indeed, I wonder how a change in the system might actually occur? A > changing day? > > Right now- I find myself favouring the last thing anyone writes: ) > > Perhaps we could set up a time to discuss via live chat or google hangouts or > somesuch with anyone interested. > > :)R > > > On 03/10/15 11:34, Patrick Lichty wrote: > > Actually, while not a solution, I think a Diaspora node would be a great > experiment. > > On 10/3/15, 2:05 PM, "aharon" <a...@aharonic.net> <a...@aharonic.net> wrote: > > > Hiyas, > > Very interesting quick mapping of possibilities, Rob + Patrick - Cheers! > > Had some failed attempts linked with mailinglist and web oriented self > hosted "solutions".. > > * Bridge between a mailinglist where each post becomes a blog-post that is > in turn being published on a twitter-like platform (old identica, can be > done nowadays with gnu-social). > Problem was plurality of possible triggers - via email, blog, identica - > made it fun but hard for people to follow content. > > * Bridge between drupal and mailinglist. That was done via mailinglist and > drupal signup page. So when people registered in either, they were > registering in both. > The idea was that in this case, people could post to either list and/or a > drupal forum. These were interchangeable. So posts, replies etc were > published on both and people could use which ever tool. > That didn't catch up much for a few bugs and more importantly, people seem > a bit confused by the multiple platforms. Hard to tell whether a bugless > system would have caught up. > > * A meta messaging system "MEM" where users could direct messages between > tools. e.g. Say Blooby fancied email and sent stuff, Zlooby could receive > the message as a txt or a blog post, or whatever they fancied at that > time. > People could alter message retrieval as they fancied. > People could send stuff as they fancied. > The system itself MEM was centralised, but people's tools were as they > might want. All that needed was api registration. > > (For me the interesting bit was that each activity was to create a string > that could be expressed in audio and lighting intensity/colour > instructions. Hence the networking was evolving visceral materials..) > > Anyhow, MEM's funding went boom.. > > * A different approach entirely is that which we took in the recent > SafeShare. > A network for a very specific community, developed with the community > members in bucfp.org ) The development through workshops that teased out > requirementts, offered possible solutions and through usage feedback, we > opted for temporary solutions to begin with. The idea is that this will > assist in initial usage and as the system is used more, we could alter it > later. (perhaps even via more similar workshops if needed..) > > Not sure this is applicable here, because there is much broader > participation. > However it might be an idea to use the need for a change as an opening to > try various solutions live with the people involved? A sort of > evolutionary approach? > > Indeed, I wonder how a change in the system might actually occur? A > changing day? > > Apologies for too many questions possibly.. Hopefully some are apt. > > Probably the gist of this is that it seems altering the communication > system and platforms can be a tricky process and it would be a shame to > lose people as a result. > > Cheers and a fab weekend! > > aharon > xx > > PS > Any thoughts re a diaspora node..? > > > > > On Sat, October 3, 2015 07:09, Patrick Lichty wrote: > > Rob, > I think that as usual, you¹re brilliant. The metric tracking idea seems > OK, maybe, but might be a bit of a red herring. > > > All: > I think that Furtherfield is at a pivotal moment similar to the > institutionalization moment of Rhizome, where it asked; ³How can we have > maximum imapact/reach, etc?² > > I know I¹m conflating a LOT of terms here, but I think my core argument > is sound. I realize that the impetus here is to bring FF goodness to > larger groups and spread light in the jungle of other art communities. > However, > a few things to consider. > > So, what happened? In my conversation with the execs there over time, > There was an admission that the lists were forumized to facilitate > institutional discourse, and Michael Connor even admitted to not > focusing > on community, and with the cutbacks, I¹ll be curious to see what Zach > does. > > Secondly, regarding bridge-building - this relates to serving inter > community needs. An extreme example is my conversation with Cao Fei > during > the building of RMB City in Second Life. She had no idea of the > necessity for community engagement before our conversation; she just > assumed that people would know who she was and flock to the servers. > What > she didn¹t realize was that Sl and the Artworld are totally different > birds. > > Furherfield is in a much better position in that the ³new media² (sic) > community, as shown in my (hopefully) upcoming late review of ISEA that > the > Contemporary and the Tech Media artworlds are less divergent than > ever, probably (urrr�) thanks to the postinternets. ISEA 2015 showed > that > the art historical traditions are concurrent at this time, and piercing > the membrane might be relatively easy. > > Back to Rhizome. > > > I think that Rhizome¹s path was a Faustian bargain. Its decentering > from > the community model, IMO, is coming to roost as the institutions are > giving it less resources (and isn¹t it even outside of the NuMu now?), > and there isn¹t a community except for the young blue-chips to rely on. > First, withFF¹s punk roots, I doubt that many of the pitfalls that beset > R > will hit FF. And there is a valid question - how does FF continue to > evolve without neglecting its core values? Good question. > > And I¹ll be selfish in that although I am not terribly active, the list > is my main umbilical to the community at this time, and I want it to > stay a > list. I¹mnot against outreaches, don¹t think that the list should just > be > a haven for hoary New Media artists, but on the other hand, I feel that > the list has a good community that is pretty healthy. I also think > there > are good models like Nettime that are excellent cases to defend the > form, and� > > For Powers¹ Sake, The Well??? > > > There¹s is a case for the power of Ur-Forums and their continued power. > My buds Lebkowsky and Sterling rock the cybersphere every year from a > anciently formatted mail thread there every year through The State of > the > World every year. > > > I think FF has a precious resource in its list, and I¹m not in favor of > much more than incremental change. The axiom of that which evolves dies > doesn¹t necessarily fit here, as it¹s a matter of community investiture > rather than logistics. Looking at the list institutionally rather than > socially is a salient debate to have, and I don¹t want to lose the sense > of community I have here. This is one of the last informal venues I > have > to just shoot the shit, as it were, and I think it¹s one of the few > where you can in this format. > > My .02 AED... > > > On 10/3/15, 9:01 AM, "Rob Myers" <r...@robmyers.org> <r...@robmyers.org> > wrote: > > > > On 02/10/15 04:03 AM, ruth catlow wrote: > > > Furtherfield HQ (first think Google and then try to imagine the > opposite) > > An open-ended and non-enclosed structure with no basketball courts or > free candy vending machines? > > > Two issues > 1) the cost and time associated with strategising, consulting, > designing, planning and remunerating all involved, for their efforts > while: future-proofing community infrastructure, caring for the > archive/database. We have had some really very good and generous > support from a number of people to help us understand what the process > might be, but the work still needs doing...and all risks mitigated! > > 2) connected to the above - maintaining the connections we all have, > while inviting in new and diverse (in age, background, device-loyalty, > ethnicity) people. > > There are a few approaches, with different affordances and costs > (economic and political). > > > 1. Yay Walled Gardens! > > > Use Medium for publishing articles, hosted Discourse for mail/boards, > and Slack for co-ordination/chat. > > Cost: 100USD/month plus your soul. > Demographic: Current. > > > 2. All Zuck All The Time > > > Use Facebook Notes for publishing articles, Facebook pages for > discussion, and Facebook messaging for co-ordination/chat. > > Cost: Zero, plus the souls of all humanity. > Demographic: Previous. > > > 3. Current Free Software > > > Use Jekyll for publishing (mediated via GitLabs or at a pinch GitHub) > [TODO: comment system], self-hosted Discourse or Groupserver for > mail/boards, and an existing GNU social install or irc for co-ord/chat. > > Cost: As much as hosting costs. > Demographic: current. > > > 4. Hosted Free Software > > > Use Wordpress for publishing, see if lurk.org will host Netbehaviour on > their Groupserver install, and use an existing GNU social install or > irc for co-ord/chat. > > Cost: As much as the services cost, look for donations. > Demographic: Almost current. > > > > For any self-hosted or donated services, stick them behind Cloudflare. > Good for DDOS and ssl, bad for centralization. > > > Choice of platform is to a degree choice of audience, cultural context > and politics. Not in a technologically deterministic sense but in the > sense that different book publishers or record labels are. Change the > system, exploit the system, or buck the system? > > - Rob. > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing > listNetBehaviour@netbehaviour.orghttp://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing > listNetBehaviour@netbehaviour.orghttp://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing > listNetBehaviour@netbehaviour.orghttp://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing > listNetBehaviour@netbehaviour.orghttp://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > -- > Co-founder Co-director > Furtherfield > > www.furtherfield.org > > +44 (0) 77370 02879 > Meeting calendar - http://bit.ly/1NgeLce > Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i > > Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, & > debates > around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997 > > Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee > registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205. > Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade, > Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH. > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > -- *26 09 14h* *vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger*, une *conférence performéefestival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue <http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas de Prunet, Montpellier aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ *besides, *online performances *On Object Agency * with Martina Ruhsam *archives* (text, script, video, images) bram.org/besides/ *Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on *Furtherfield* furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams <http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams> <https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/08/13/ed-atkins-remediating/> <http://turbulence.org/commissions/besides/>
_______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
