Dear EVERYONEI'm sticking to this subject header - cos it tickles me that Geert (gawd bless 'im) started all of this (admittedly inadvertently)- and I want to keep the thread intact. (Though I agree Randal that we move on...soon)
Annie, let's talk back-channel about possible guests - thank you for offering. Perfect....!
On the point about grappling with the complexity of different systems we definitely want to find a way to host online a live group discussion that will allow us to pick through the various platforms and softwares to understand their different socialities.
Randall's offer to host another gathering on his platform is a good one.Then we may set up a parallel place and invite you all to come and test. And if any of you wanted to do the same- go for it.
Having said that- my feeling is that the recent discussion perfectly demonstrates the wonder of the email discussion list as a platform. One of the main reasons for questioning it, was that Mailman is just starting to not work for so many people- glitching out.
We are not going to move anything immediately - though SOON. We must focus right now on the upcoming launch of our first exhibition for Art Data Money http://www.furtherfield.org/artdatamoney/art-shows/
It opens next Friday (16th) at 5pm - please come along anyone near London- as usual we'd love to see you.
HUGE THANKS TO YOU ALL! : ) Ruth On 05/10/15 12:07, Annie Abrahams wrote:
Hi Ruth, just you ...I think it might be a good idea to set up a meeting with those who want to continue this conversation. Where? That's up to Ruth and Marc I think. I'll come whereever they go. (and then I decided to write to you only Ruth) I want to be bothered less and less with testing new things, but if it's important, like staying connected to furtherfield, I will make an effort. It's a political decision and I think you should decide wether to follow Randall's adobe or Rob's suggestion (the last one makes me afraid, bucause most things Rob proposes are complicated - but if he could make it "easy" I guess it would be fine and a nice experiment. I can also understand it if you don't want to have such an online-live conversation now. Anyway my volunteering to be a "host" on the mailinglist stays, just tell me who and when to introduce ... (I could also ask others to be hosts, but I guess it would be better to wait until the situation of where you will go will be a bit clearer) most important question maybe Who wants to be actively involved?bye bye AnnieI'll have to be bothered with testing etc, because I'll have to find a new streaming interface (testing combination of opentok (is this relaiable? - I don't ask you Ruth :)) and openbroadcasting, and then find a strong server). maybe in january we will try to make it a common project with OUDEIS., maybeOn Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 12:41 PM, ruth catlow <ruth.cat...@furtherfield.org <mailto:ruth.cat...@furtherfield.org>> wrote:Great point and idea Aharon! >Indeed, I wonder how a change in the system might actually occur? A changing day? Right now- I find myself favouring the last thing anyone writes: ) Perhaps we could set up a time to discuss via live chat or google hangouts or somesuch with anyone interested. :)R On 03/10/15 11:34, Patrick Lichty wrote:Actually, while not a solution, I think a Diaspora node would be a great experiment. On 10/3/15, 2:05 PM, "aharon"<a...@aharonic.net> <mailto:a...@aharonic.net> wrote:Hiyas, Very interesting quick mapping of possibilities, Rob + Patrick - Cheers! Had some failed attempts linked with mailinglist and web oriented self hosted "solutions".. * Bridge between a mailinglist where each post becomes a blog-post that is in turn being published on a twitter-like platform (old identica, can be done nowadays with gnu-social). Problem was plurality of possible triggers - via email, blog, identica - made it fun but hard for people to follow content. * Bridge between drupal and mailinglist. That was done via mailinglist and drupal signup page. So when people registered in either, they were registering in both. The idea was that in this case, people could post to either list and/or a drupal forum. These were interchangeable. So posts, replies etc were published on both and people could use which ever tool. That didn't catch up much for a few bugs and more importantly, people seem a bit confused by the multiple platforms. Hard to tell whether a bugless system would have caught up. * A meta messaging system "MEM" where users could direct messages between tools. e.g. Say Blooby fancied email and sent stuff, Zlooby could receive the message as a txt or a blog post, or whatever they fancied at that time. People could alter message retrieval as they fancied. People could send stuff as they fancied. The system itself MEM was centralised, but people's tools were as they might want. All that needed was api registration. (For me the interesting bit was that each activity was to create a string that could be expressed in audio and lighting intensity/colour instructions. Hence the networking was evolving visceral materials..) Anyhow, MEM's funding went boom.. * A different approach entirely is that which we took in the recent SafeShare. A network for a very specific community, developed with the community members inbucfp.org <http://bucfp.org> ) The development through workshops that teased out requirementts, offered possible solutions and through usage feedback, we opted for temporary solutions to begin with. The idea is that this will assist in initial usage and as the system is used more, we could alter it later. (perhaps even via more similar workshops if needed..) Not sure this is applicable here, because there is much broader participation. However it might be an idea to use the need for a change as an opening to try various solutions live with the people involved? A sort of evolutionary approach? Indeed, I wonder how a change in the system might actually occur? A changing day? Apologies for too many questions possibly.. Hopefully some are apt. Probably the gist of this is that it seems altering the communication system and platforms can be a tricky process and it would be a shame to lose people as a result. Cheers and a fab weekend! aharon xx PS Any thoughts re a diaspora node..? On Sat, October 3, 2015 07:09, Patrick Lichty wrote:Rob, I think that as usual, you¹re brilliant. The metric tracking idea seems OK, maybe, but might be a bit of a red herring. All: I think that Furtherfield is at a pivotal moment similar to the institutionalization moment of Rhizome, where it asked; ³How can we have maximum imapact/reach, etc?² I know I¹m conflating a LOT of terms here, but I think my core argument is sound. I realize that the impetus here is to bring FF goodness to larger groups and spread light in the jungle of other art communities. However, a few things to consider. So, what happened? In my conversation with the execs there over time, There was an admission that the lists were forumized to facilitate institutional discourse, and Michael Connor even admitted to not focusing on community, and with the cutbacks, I¹ll be curious to see what Zach does. Secondly, regarding bridge-building - this relates to serving inter community needs. An extreme example is my conversation with Cao Fei during the building of RMB City in Second Life. She had no idea of the necessity for community engagement before our conversation; she just assumed that people would know who she was and flock to the servers. What she didn¹t realize was that Sl and the Artworld are totally different birds. Furherfield is in a much better position in that the ³new media² (sic) community, as shown in my (hopefully) upcoming late review of ISEA that the Contemporary and the Tech Media artworlds are less divergent than ever, probably (urrr�) thanks to the postinternets. ISEA 2015 showed that the art historical traditions are concurrent at this time, and piercing the membrane might be relatively easy. Back to Rhizome. I think that Rhizome¹s path was a Faustian bargain. Its decentering from the community model, IMO, is coming to roost as the institutions are giving it less resources (and isn¹t it even outside of the NuMu now?), and there isn¹t a community except for the young blue-chips to rely on. First, withFF¹s punk roots, I doubt that many of the pitfalls that beset R will hit FF. And there is a valid question - how does FF continue to evolve without neglecting its core values? Good question. And I¹ll be selfish in that although I am not terribly active, the list is my main umbilical to the community at this time, and I want it to stay a list. I¹mnot against outreaches, don¹t think that the list should just be a haven for hoary New Media artists, but on the other hand, I feel that the list has a good community that is pretty healthy. I also think there are good models like Nettime that are excellent cases to defend the form, and� For Powers¹ Sake, The Well??? There¹s is a case for the power of Ur-Forums and their continued power. My buds Lebkowsky and Sterling rock the cybersphere every year from a anciently formatted mail thread there every year through The State of the World every year. I think FF has a precious resource in its list, and I¹m not in favor of much more than incremental change. The axiom of that which evolves dies doesn¹t necessarily fit here, as it¹s a matter of community investiture rather than logistics. Looking at the list institutionally rather than socially is a salient debate to have, and I don¹t want to lose the sense of community I have here. This is one of the last informal venues I have to just shoot the shit, as it were, and I think it¹s one of the few where you can in this format. My .02 AED... On 10/3/15, 9:01 AM, "Rob Myers"<r...@robmyers.org> <mailto:r...@robmyers.org> wrote:On 02/10/15 04:03 AM, ruth catlow wrote:Furtherfield HQ (first think Google and then try to imagine the opposite)An open-ended and non-enclosed structure with no basketball courts or free candy vending machines?Two issues 1) the cost and time associated with strategising, consulting, designing, planning and remunerating all involved, for their efforts while: future-proofing community infrastructure, caring for the archive/database. We have had some really very good and generous support from a number of people to help us understand what the process might be, but the work still needs doing...and all risks mitigated! 2) connected to the above - maintaining the connections we all have, while inviting in new and diverse (in age, background, device-loyalty, ethnicity) people.There are a few approaches, with different affordances and costs (economic and political). 1. Yay Walled Gardens! Use Medium for publishing articles, hosted Discourse for mail/boards, and Slack for co-ordination/chat. Cost: 100USD/month plus your soul. Demographic: Current. 2. All Zuck All The Time Use Facebook Notes for publishing articles, Facebook pages for discussion, and Facebook messaging for co-ordination/chat. Cost: Zero, plus the souls of all humanity. Demographic: Previous. 3. Current Free Software Use Jekyll for publishing (mediated via GitLabs or at a pinch GitHub) [TODO: comment system], self-hosted Discourse or Groupserver for mail/boards, and an existing GNU social install or irc for co-ord/chat. Cost: As much as hosting costs. Demographic: current. 4. Hosted Free Software Use Wordpress for publishing, see iflurk.org <http://lurk.org> will host Netbehaviour on their Groupserver install, and use an existing GNU social install or irc for co-ord/chat. Cost: As much as the services cost, look for donations. Demographic: Almost current. For any self-hosted or donated services, stick them behind Cloudflare. Good for DDOS and ssl, bad for centralization. Choice of platform is to a degree choice of audience, cultural context and politics. Not in a technologically deterministic sense but in the sense that different book publishers or record labels are. Change the system, exploit the system, or buck the system? - Rob. _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org <mailto:NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour_______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org <mailto:NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour_______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org <mailto:NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour_______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org <mailto:NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour-- Co-founder Co-directorFurtherfield www.furtherfield.org <http://www.furtherfield.org> +44 (0) 77370 02879 Meeting calendar - http://bit.ly/1NgeLce Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, & debates around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997 Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205. Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade, Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH. _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org <mailto:NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour --*26 09 14h* /vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger/, une *conférence performée festival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue <http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas de Prunet, Montpellier aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ <https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/>/**/ /*besides, * /online performances *On Object Agency * with Martina Ruhsam *archives* (text, script, video, images)*/ /*bram.org/besides/ <http://bram.org/besides/>*Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on *Furtherfield* furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams <http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams>*/ /*
-- Co-founder Co-director Furtherfield www.furtherfield.org +44 (0) 77370 02879 Meeting calendar - http://bit.ly/1NgeLce Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2iFurtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, & debates
around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997 Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade, Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
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