I hear what you are saying, and the conversation has ventured pretty far afield.
I agree that Images are bad at math. They are bad at most hard sciences. But anthropology is just as complex as astrophysics, and images are much more prominent in soft sciences. Images do have long duree- they are our window into the human condition, our way of understand the evolution of human mythology, psychology, attitudes- images help us understand our place in history. For instance, I don't think you could tell a history of Civil Rights without images- too hard to describe the magnitude of it. The brutality is unbelievable, until you see it. When the editors of Time magazine sit down to publish the "top ten photo wrap up of the 1900s"- they are taking into account the same vast number of vectors that a cultural theorist would if they published an editorial on "wrap up of the 1900s". Anyway, thanks for the conversation- everyone. On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Alan Sondheim <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Bishop, it's not the complexity of images; it's the long duree, which > is different. If you're interested, say, in particle physics, images of > Feynman diagrams or accelerators won't go anywhere towards understanding > how the universe is. You need math, quantum theory, quantum field theory, > etc. etc. I find these things more complex than images. You speak of > curating and I totally agree with you there; it's discussion in depth that > I'm thinking of, though. Even, say, to understand the political situation > in the U.S. - even to understand it in Wilkes-Barre PA (where I'm from, and > the NY Times wrote an article on it) - takes a lot of reading and thinking, > at least for me, as well as trying to understand the so-called 'pundits' > who put up opinion pieces etc. I can't do this with 'just' (I know that's > loaded) images, or with Facebook quips/images for example - images are just > as capable of obfuscating/hiding as much as revealing, aphorisms even > moreso. > > Perhaps it's just that our practices and expectations are very different > of course - > > > - Alan > > On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, BishopZ wrote: > > Can images not be so complex? >> Pinterest satisfies all of your concerns except the part about words. >> >> It takes just as much thought to use it well, as reading an essay. >> >> Pinterest is a (the only?) curatorial mass medium, and curation takes >> time. >> >> Some people try to use it like Fb or a Blog and fail horribly. Many use it >> simply as a bookmark engine. Pinterest hates this. >> >> Pinterest wants you to spend a long time deciding whether to delete an >> image >> or not. And with large community boards that are heavily curated, it >> becomes >> a very social practice. >> >> Let me know your ideas! >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Alan Sondheim <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I love the conversation inside Android! I can imagine plays >> written like this, it would be an interesting genre. I'm on >> Win10 however and it may be a bit different. >> >> On Fb I'm not that worried; what occurs on the surface is pretty >> much what I see (I've set so many precautions across the browser >> and in Fb), although I don't take that for granted. >> >> The sandboxing's there; what still worries me is that even if I >> were on Android, that's not what the declamation says; it's not >> about permitted agency, but about full agency. I wonder about >> the legal ramifications of this - if there are any. >> >> By thoughtfulness, I mean among other things, long duree, >> reading, say, Badiou or Zalamea instead of Wired. That takes >> time, repetition, the ability to return, to move slowly. The >> universe is difficult, Fb, at least for me, for example, isn't. >> An email list allows for return - on empyre when we had the >> discussion on anguish, we could return to earlier posts, and >> some of the posts were extremely lengthy, not including links. >> So a discourse in depth developed. I haven't had that in chat; >> when I do use chat or try to use chat that way, I end up cutting >> and pasting. >> >> I'm on Pinterest and may be missing something, but I don't see >> the depth there as well. (For example, I'm reading a book, The >> Evidence for the Top Quark, and I can't imagine how this might >> be discussed anywhere except on an email list or dedicated blog; >> the complexity of the world appears everywhere in the text. But >> again, I may be missing something, and I do have to run at times >> to Wikipedia for particle physics information.) >> >> Thanks! >> >> - Alan >> >> >> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, BishopZ wrote: >> >> >> The issues of privacy are different depending if you >> are talking about the >> NSA, Facebook or Wikileaks. It is difficult to be >> pro-privacy in all three >> discussions. >> >> In terms of Facebook or Snapchat privacy, as James >> pointed out, be careful >> when simply reading the words. >> >> On Android, there are more internal regulation of >> your privacy than you >> could imagine. I hear the IOS has even more. >> >> For instance, in the case of >> "Photos/Media/Files >> >> read the contents of your USB storage >> modify or delete the contents of your USB >> storage" >> >> That sounds outrageous to me. >> But this is how the conversation goes inside of the >> Android OS. >> >> Alan: Hi Snapchat! >> Snapchat: Hi, can I have permission to access your >> photos. >> Alan: Sure. >> ... >> Snapchat: Alan, you have created a photo, Do you >> want to save it? >> Alan: Yes! >> Snapchat: Android, Alan would like to save a photo >> he made in my app. >> Android: I see that you have permission to do that, >> Where is the photo? >> Snapchat: Here you go. >> Android: Ok, I saved it. >> ... >> Snapchat: Alan, what photo would you like to use. >> Alan: The photo I want in is my Photos app. >> Snapchat: Android, Alan would like to select a photo >> from Photos. >> Android: I see that Alan has said you can do that. >> Snapchat: Okay, here is Alan. >> (Android then shows you the files in your Photos, >> not Snapchat.) >> Alan: I want this one. >> Android: Snapchat, here is the photo they selected. >> Snapchat: thanks! >> >> Internally this stuff is heavily sandboxed. >> >> I know hackers can still get around it, but that is >> the NSA conversation >> about privacy, not the Facebook conversation. I get >> a little tired of people >> saying that all online social networks are as bad as >> the NSA. >> >> To Alan's point about the loss of "thoughtfulness" >> in social media. I have >> mentioned on this list many times. Love it or hate >> it, Pinterest is another >> example of "thoughtfulness" in social media. >> >> That said, nearly every company I have worked for >> has replaced email with >> chat. You might be overestimating how thoughtful the >> average email user >> really was. Chat is better for most people. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Alan Sondheim >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> at least disorienting and different, and for >> everyone; the >> question is, what do we do about it? in the >> US, the potential >> hacking of the national election in November >> is frightening... >> >> alan >> >> On Tue, 30 Aug 2016, John Hopkins wrote: >> >> We are really witnessing a shifting of >> mediated >> communications. As we age, protocols >> change and >> generations split along those differing >> protocol >> lines. the fabric of the social system >> continues to >> fray... interiority is being exhumed for >> profit... >> thoughtfulness subsumed by >> profiteering... >> disorienting & sad... >> >> email lists, which still seem on >> the >> wane, seem to be the only online >> forum >> for >> extended discussion and a kind of >> 'care' >> in reading that's almost >> impossible >> elsewhere. that's why empyre, for >> example, works so well. there's a >> kind >> of >> reading-voice and interiority that >> allows for thoughtfulness, >> listening... >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD >> grounded on a granite batholith >> twitter: @neoscenes >> http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/ >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> >> >> == >> email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ >> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 >> music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ >> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/ud.txt >> == >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ____________________________________________________________ >> ____ >> ============================================================ >> ==== >> =--------------------------------------------------------=-= >> ==-=-=-====-- >> +_+~_=_~--+__+=-^=-+_+_=^-+__+-=+_+~__=__~-_-____-=++=_--^-= >> ==-=-==-=-=-- >> =--------------------------------------------------------=-= >> ==-=-=-====-- >> >> http://bishopZ.com >> ____________________________________________________________ >> ___________ >> >> >> >> == >> email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ >> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 >> music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ >> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/ud.txt >> == >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ________________________________________________________________ >> ================================================================ >> =--------------------------------------------------------=-===-=-=-====-- >> +_+~_=_~--+__+=-^=-+_+_=^-+__+-=+_+~__=__~-_-____-=++=_--^-===-=-==-=-=-- >> =--------------------------------------------------------=-===-=-=-====-- >> >> http://bishopZ.com >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> > == > email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ > web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 > music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ > current text http://www.alansondheim.org/ud.txt > == > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > -- ________________________________________________________________ ================================================================ =--------------------------------------------------------=-===-=-=-====-- +_+~_=_~--+__+=-^=-+_+_=^-+__+-=+_+~__=__~-_-____-=++=_--^-===-=-==-=-=-- =--------------------------------------------------------=-===-=-=-====-- http://bishopZ.com _______________________________________________________________________
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