Hi Sean, Ok point taken! I apologize for being unintentionally rude or insensitive. My intentions were other.
gr w > On 06 Nov 2018, at 14:29, Sean Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > "Sorry" could also work very well here --- maybe even better than a > recommendation. > > > > From: Willem van Weelden <[email protected]> > To: Julia Röder <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 7:09 AM > Subject: Re: <nettime> apropos "relax dear" > > Hi, > just to make this clear once and for all : > • I am not a bigot, fascist, alt-right troll or what not. > • maybe i was a bit naiev in thinking that Alexander Bard was just a nuisance > and someone with a rather unpleasant talk. Florian was so kind to notify me > of his connections and rather suspect affiliations. I did not know that, nor > that I read his stuff very precesily for I could smell from a distance the > pahtological nature of it. > • I did want to ‘silence’ anyone; nor that I wanted to sound or act in a > patronizing or condescending way. I just wanted to ease Angela, in what > struck me as a slightly paranoid reaction to a stupid rant (Alexander’s). I > now can understand better the sensitivities that have burst out. > • I recommend to know your real enemies, and fight them accordingly. I do not > fall in that category, nor do I want to be pushed in such a position. > Having a productive discussion on things that matter! > > best, > w >> On 05 Nov 2018, at 01:57, Julia Röder <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> about that >> >> > dear angela, >> > relax dear. >> > it is ok. >> > noone is recruiting anyone here. >> > chill. >> > best, >> > w >> >> so, is that it? silence about this from the whole list except from angela? >> do you all not say anything because you think this is trolling or this is >> normal?? >> >> On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 23:29, <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: apropos of nothing (Angela Mitropoulos) >> 2. Re: apropos of nothing (Florian Cramer) >> 3. Re: Complexity and nostalgia (bronac ferran) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 11:12:54 +1100 >> From: Angela Mitropoulos <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> To: Nettime <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Subject: Re: <nettime> apropos of nothing >> Message-ID: >> <CANOG54eNOM7MpzRoZkGj4zo46=nc4p+2yppmtn8hufbvvmw...@mail.gmail.com >> <mailto:nc4p%[email protected]>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> It is a simple and straightforward question that I would like answered. It >> makes no inferences about whether recruitment is effective, or even >> deliberate rather than aesthetic. But I'm grateful for the evidence you've >> furnished, dear, about the way in which women are told to calm down and >> shut up, no matter the tone they take, so that those who think women and >> black people are less than human and not entitled to take up space can keep >> ranting on at length about how everyone other than white guys are less than >> human. I mean, I'm grateful that you've illustrated the reason why I asked >> this question in the first place. That said, I have no interest in debating >> this further. >> >> I simply repeat my question, and would like it answered. Preferably in the >> negative. But if in the affirmative, then I would like to suggest that >> Nettime be shuttered because any benefit it had for creating a better world >> has long past. The world doesn't need a longform version of Gab, or Gab for >> that matter. >> >> Angela >> >> On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 10:29, Willem van Weelden <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> > dear angela, >> > relax dear. >> > it is ok. >> > noone is recruiting anyone here. >> > chill. >> > best, >> > w >> > >> > >> > > On 03 Nov 2018, at 23:04, Angela Mitropoulos < >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a >> > platform from which to recruit? >> > > >> > > Angela >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> > > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> > > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> >> > > # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/> contact: >> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/f2cd6c22/attachment-0001.html >> >> <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/f2cd6c22/attachment-0001.html>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 13:15:16 +0100 >> From: Florian Cramer <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Cc: Nettime <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Subject: Re: <nettime> apropos of nothing >> Message-ID: >> <CADCyihQJfoRHqWhC_1jnOi5nh5fcp9ihNw=nmxq7qolivfv...@mail.gmail.com >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Alexander Bard is a typical example of a "Querfront" activist, and a member >> of this right-wing party: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Coalition >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Coalition> >> >> -F >> >> -- >> blog: *https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561 >> <https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561> >> <https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561 >> <https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561>>* >> bio: http://floriancramer.nl <http://floriancramer.nl/> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 12:30 AM Willem van Weelden <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> > dear angela, >> > relax dear. >> > it is ok. >> > noone is recruiting anyone here. >> > chill. >> > best, >> > w >> > >> > >> > > On 03 Nov 2018, at 23:04, Angela Mitropoulos < >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a >> > platform from which to recruit? >> > > >> > > Angela >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> > > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> > > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> > > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> >> > > # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/> contact: >> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> > >> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> >> > # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/> contact: >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/dbf7a410/attachment-0001.html >> >> <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/dbf7a410/attachment-0001.html>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 13:49:52 +0000 >> From: bronac ferran <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> To: a moderated mailing list for net criticism >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Subject: Re: <nettime> Complexity and nostalgia >> Message-ID: >> <caoxxuwdnbndgledwscakjfpbjjx3zrwg-g2-y+kx3denvfb...@mail.gmail.com >> <mailto:caoxxuwdnbndgledwscakjfpbjjx3zrwg-g2-y%[email protected]>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Thank you very much for doing this Nina. Frankly I was just 'bard stiff' >> after reading such flat, leaden prose by someone attempting and failing to >> antagonise whilst posing libidinously, apropos of celebrity >> >> https://twitter.com/Bardissimo/status/973224337976315907 >> <https://twitter.com/Bardissimo/status/973224337976315907> >> >> Have filtered under BS. >> >> Brona? >> >> >> On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 01:12, Nina Tempor?r <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Wow, nettime?s very own James Damore moment - >> > And hardly anyone calls him out. >> > >> > I cannot believe how easily so many people here allowed A.B. to >> > intellectually-click-bait >> > them into a discussion just because he whispered the magic words ?Marx? >> > and ?class?, >> > And willingly delivered him material to refine his language for his >> > pseudo-philosophical >> > White male ?ngst-driven project, >> > Even after he had already lashed out in a dangerously generalized way >> > against academia, >> > After he had already generally denounced identity politics as self-pity >> > and whining, after he >> > Had claimed gender & race as having no social realities, after he had >> > judged the welfare >> > State as an infantilization of society and, on top of all, had totally >> > ridiculously indulged himself >> > In a teenage-like invention rage of cock-culture-worshipping neologisms >> > that he obviously enjoys >> > To decorate his little short-20th-Century binary phantasy land with. >> > >> > While a few of the answers with serious reactions to the classism question >> > were really a >> > Pleasure to read and very much worth considering under different premises, >> > I don?t understand >> > why almost nobody here (except for Alice, Ian, and Florian - thanks for >> > your interventions) did see >> > The contradiction that the very same people he claims to be wanting to >> > work with in that new class >> > War he dreams of, get insulted so badly and in a hierarchy-reproducing >> > manner, that a future >> > Cooperation is being boycotted before it has even started. >> > >> > Is that really only a sad lack of strategic thinking? Or not rather >> > revealing how inclusive his >> > New class war phantasy actually is, and whose perspective he expects to be >> > adopted as >> > Conceptual lead? >> > >> > There is a big difference between disagreement and lashing out in a way >> > that reveals absolute >> > Entitlement, and even worse: the assumption to be ?safe? when stating such >> > stuff in a place >> > Like nettime mailing list. >> > >> > It?s so tiring to be forced to point out, once more, that entitlement is >> > key in this problematic: >> > >> > While Alexander and his followers have very well understood that investing >> > into digital literacy >> > Is an absolute necessity if they want to survive in these times, any >> > knowledge update in relation to >> > Gender & anti-racism debates is shrugged of as community-specific >> > expertise (and commented >> > With the reproach of having an only self-healing effect) instead of >> > understood as the fundamental, >> > Constitutive (not so new) change of perspective, without which >> > no thorough analysis of class >> > Struggle can withstand. >> > >> > It was really interesting to read Dan?s report/ analysis of the beginning >> > of ?identity politics? in the US >> > (In Europe, I assume, this is a slightly different story) and >> > his acknowledgement/ claim that it is his >> > Generation's own fault not to have passed on the historic context to the >> > next generation. >> > I would really like to engage in this discussion by asking if it is really >> > about the lack of history in a >> > Negative sense, or, if the (assumed) lack of history/ continuity might not >> > be expression of a generally >> > Positive phenomenon: the attitude of a generation being sick of any kind >> > of further waiting and gradual >> > Development, legitimately bold enough to demand full acceptance here and >> > now - even if this leads to >> > A roundhouse-kick-radicality that sometimes feels moralizing and partly >> > unfair even to antecedent >> > activists. (And no, I am not part of that generation and often enough >> > annoyed myself, but try to >> > Understand.) >> > >> > I?m not keen of discussing it in a context, though, where Alexander Bard >> > can blatantly display his near-hatred >> > Anger on certain minority activism without being sanctioned, just days >> > after a shooting in a synagogue and >> > Lethal threats to critics of Trump, with daily Police brutality towards >> > POC, regular attacks on homes for asylum >> > Seekers in Germany, harassment of anti-Trump academics in the US >> > and similar harassments of academics >> > Criticising right-wing politics now - even structurally organised - by the >> > AfD in Germany as well, and ongoing >> > And normalised discrimination of and assaults on women. >> > Incitement to violence is a spark easily ignited these days. >> > >> > Last but not least, I have the impression A.B. never really had to speak >> > up for himself against a mainstream >> > Opinion, otherwise he would know how much courage it takes and that it is >> > no way just 'fighting for one?s >> > Own good? but helps numerous others affected by that norm, and that >> > keeping quiet and adapting, even at >> > The high price of ongoing unfair treatment, is often the easier way. >> > >> > It seems to be necessary to point out that repeating just a mainstream >> > opinion, once it is tumbling and >> > Forced to open up to multi-perspective views, does n o t count as such. >> > >> > Best, N >> > Ps: Alice and Ian, your mails arrived while I wrote this, thanks again >> > >> > >> > Am 03.11.2018 um 18:30 schrieb Brian Holmes <[email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]> >> > >: >> > >> > On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 7:11 AM Felix Stalder <[email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > On Sat, Nov 3, 2018, 6:07 AM Alexander Bard <[email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> >> >> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> >> > # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/> contact: >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> >> >> >> -- >> Brona? >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/53c7659f/attachment.html >> >> <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20181104/53c7659f/attachment.html>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> >> >> End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 134, Issue 17 >> ****************************************** >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> >> # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/> contact: >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > # archive: http://www.nettime.org <http://www.nettime.org/>contact: > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > >
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