On Tuesday 16 November 2010 18:09:10 Pranesh Prakash wrote: > Dear JTD, > While a lawyer, I'm no competition law expert, and know still less > about the new act (while I at least had some amount of familiarity > with the old act). So I won't respond to specifics of desirability > of one approach over another, since I'm not qualified to. > > However, I don't think things like lack of security of an OS is > either something that can be objectively proved in a way that > satisfies a court, no is it a consideration for competition law > purposes. (Remember, this isn't about standards/quality which > consumer law might deal with.)
Agreed, but my statement was not about security, but to point out that the version shipped is merely to hook unaware users with a crippled version, even though a fully functional version is shipped with the machine. The analogy is shipping a car with a 4 cylinder engine, then hobbling it with a key so that it runs only on one cylinder. This could be used for the predatory pricing argument, as it clearly is an attempt to hook unwary users. > > I agree that difference in prices between a computer with an OS and > that same one without should be compared with the retail prices of > the OS. Could the hive mind provide examples and instances? I've > saved the Thinkpad India website which provides that info. http://www1.ap.dell.com/in/en/business/notebooks/precision-m6500/pd.aspx?refid=precision-m6500&s=bsd&cs=inbsd1 This one lists RH as "for Testing purposes only". Can RH confirm that their distro works on this. I am sure that none of the machines listed specifically as "Dos" or Ubuntu are available either without OS or with some linux. Someone will have to confirm that though. One will have to be a little careful while making a statement, as some small parts of some machines do not work with linux, unless one tweaks somethings eg. 3D accel or wireless. Same goes for every other hardware vendor. Essentially linux option is available only on machines with substantially lower performance, even though any distro will run far better than doze. > > Regards, > Pranesh > > On Tuesday 16 November 2010 05:48 PM, jtd wrote: > > On Tuesday 16 November 2010 17:07:15 Pranesh Prakash wrote: > >> Dear all, > >> As some of you might be aware, CIS has commissioned Anuj Puri, a > >> respected competition law attorney, to write a report on > >> software practices and competition law in India. That report > >> can then be used as a basis for legal interventions before the > >> Competition Commission of India. Anuj wanted the help of the > >> FOSS community in getting evidence about practices. He needs > >> our help in getting more details on the > >> > >> following fronts: > >>> 1. How are the software priced? > >>> If we have to allege predatory pricing on behalf of any firm, > >>> we need to know if we can predict their average variable cost > >>> or marginal cost. > > > > I know of atleast one person (in 2001) who negotiated 60% + > > discount on purchase of licenced M$ products. > > > > The company (Rs.200 Cr. in 2001) used some licenced M$ products, > > but also mostly used the same cds in all it's comps. M$ > > threatened with legal action. The IT head installed RH6.2 (afair) > > on his desktop and called the M$ RM. During the meeting he told > > M$ that he was already planning to switch to linux (from unix) on > > the servers and quite liked RH6.2. The M$ manager had never heard > > of linux and was under the impression that unix was only CLI. He > > was shocked to see a nice Kde display with staroffice. The offer > > he made was 50% off (later upped to 64%), to get rid of linux and > > unix, alongwith an upper price freeze and purchase schedule > > extending to 3 yrs. > > > >>> 2. How are they sold or licensed- details of bulk discount, > >>> bundling? I would require some evidence of the default internet > >>> browser, media player, etc., sold in tandom with the OS. The > >>> best I have at the moment is an OS vendor's website which is > >>> really short on details. Similar evidence of exclusive tie-up > >>> between any OS vendor and an OEM would be extremely helpful. > > > > IMO this is a wrong track. All we have to prove is that MOST > > systems are not available without OS and very many are installed > > with a crippled edition (Windows Vista Home Edition). > > > > In both cases there is no installation CD and one has to obtain > > the CD after making an email request. > > Since the OS is charged for, It must be accompanied by a CD > > alongwith a printed warranty for the software. > > > > Also the price difference (machine with software - machine > > without software) should be compared with the retail price of the > > said software. > > > > Finally - When it's M$ there has to be finality on this one thing > > SECURITY - the hobbled edition is atually shipped complete and > > requires merely an activation key. Which means the cost of both > > home and professional is the same. > > One can, as usual, bypass M$ security farce and get a full > > install without downloading anything from M$. > > > > http://apcmag.com/its_official_pirates_crack_vista_at_last.htm > > > > WARNING: I dont have a doze machine and have np clue about the > > actual process above. > > > >>> 3. Predatory pricing instances. > >>> Newspaper reports, other data illustrating where software, OS > >>> or hardware have been supplied free of cost or below cost to > >>> state agencies. > > > > IMO mere mandatory unbundling of hardware and software is all > > that is required. Getting into pricing and discounts will not > > serve much of a purpose. > > > >> I would request people to send in material to substantiate the > >> above, and evidence of any other practice that they feel might > >> be violative of our competition law. Please spread the word > >> around on other mailing lists as well, and help us get as much > >> detail as possible. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Pranesh -- Rgds JTD _______________________________________________ network mailing list [email protected] http://lists.fosscom.in/listinfo.cgi/network-fosscom.in
