Sorry for my mistake the below answer was sent in private... See below if you are interested.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Fabio Maulo <[email protected]> Date: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [nhusers] NHibernate 3.0 Release Planned for June 2010? To: [email protected] Believe me that I known any points you are talking about but... this is OSS world. We have no "marketing" issue because there is not a "marketing" department in our work. NHibernate is not a company and there is not a department at all. We know what mean "release" and only for that reason we will release something at some point. Because the quality is not achieved by chance, NHibernate has 2483 integration tests with MsSQL2008 with a build server ( http://teamcity.codebetter.com/viewType.html;jsessionid=CD23C5C225E131B63C017BC520B300DE?buildTypeId=bt7&tab=buildTypeStatusDiv ) to check the state of each commit. I'm 43 and in my professional life I saw very few commercial project with this kind of requirement. When a CTO ask me which is the state of the framework I'm proposing, I'm asking him which is the state of his project and, in general, the quality and requirements of NHibernate and of NH's team is a lot over his requirements of his team. OSS world has, in many many cases, more quality requirement than a commercial product for the simply reason that we are producing software because passion and not only because money. Our exigence and our responsibility in front our OSS work is greater than what a business project asks. The main requirement to each NH's committer is: you can't commit something if there is a failing test. The main requirement to accept a patch is: You must attach a failing test to an issue-tracker ticket. Question: Is the trunk stable ? Response: I don't know, what I can tell you is that the trunk does not break any of our 2483 tests as the previous release does not break any of 2xxx tests (where 2xxx < 2483). Have you some failing test for the actual trunk ? You haven't ? So ? Which is your problem ? If the actual trunk does not break any of your tests, well, the trunk is your best choice because we have implemented some useful new features and we have fixed some bugs you never found. The morality is... Don't ask us more than what you are doing in your professional work without think which is the main difference between what you are receiving in your profession and what you are giving to NHibernate. Have a sit, take a coffee and enjoy the framework or... you can now use EntityFramework4 and perhaps you can feel better asking the same quality to another better payed team. Note: even the BIG commercial monster named Microsoft have understood what mean OSS (have a look to the last products as ASP.MVC, MEF and so on without talk about www.codeplex.org)... perhaps is the time where some small/microscopic monster can change his mind. Roadmap: we hope to fix all of the actual existing open issues but because we know that it will be impossible we can only say you that we will release NH3 before the end of this year. Fred, when somebody will ask you if "it is safe to go on with this framework" say him : "No, it is better to go to EntityFramework" P.S. I'm doing it all the time but after 2 or 3 weeks I'm seeing the same people back to NH... perhaps this is only a casuality, perhaps... the quality is not achieved by chance On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 10:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Fabio, > > I think it depends on what is your job. I know a lot of corporate where the > developper can't use a framework not compliant with several criterias. > > If you are working on a project using nhibernate as I do (and i'm very > happy > with it); with a large number of entities, it is still very usefull to > forecast > a migration process, take time to learn the new functionnalities to really > leverage the new version. > > But I still agree that the "official release" considering nh is more about > "marketing" than stability. There is a good test base and the trunk is > stable. > Well that's continuous integration... > > I guess it is like using SQL : you are always fighting dinosaure. > > So when you can select and choose, it doesn't matter. But if your job is to > recommand a technology; it is difficult to get credit if you don't have > perspective on the roadmap. > > I don't want to flame the post, but a similar situation occurs for me a > couple > of month ago : we choose a framework for a particular task, and there was a > roadmap identifying key relase dates; with the supposed new > functionnalities. > The first release is now over 6 months lates, and now a lot of people are > asking > if it is safe to go on with this framework. > > I do think that the answer is : don't give any roadmap if you have no > intention > of being in time. I mean, you've made quite an amazing job with NHibernate, > you > don't really need this kind of question to put discredit on the release > process. > That's the way things are in it : If you say you release, everyone is > expecting > you to release on time; and everyone THINKS that what is between two > releases is > under dev or completely buggy. > > Regards, > > Fred. > > Selon Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>: > > > No ? are you sure ? > > we are using trunk of NH, trunk of NHV, trunk of NHCH, trunk of > NHSpatial, > > trunk of NHSerach, trunk of uNHAddIns, trunk of ConfORM in production. > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > I think it is important when planning a project manager types are > > > often not happy to use beta versions. > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Paco Wensveen <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > I always wonder why people care about release dates. What does it > > > > matter if it is released or not (except political reasons)? I do > > > > understand someone is interested in the release of a specific > feature, > > > > but for NHibernate, it will be the same code as the trunk. The > > > > revision will be labeled and be called a release on that day I guess. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "nhusers" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> > <nhusers%[email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> > > > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Fabio Maulo > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "nhusers" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- Fabio Maulo -- Fabio Maulo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nhusers" group. 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