On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 7:50 AM, John Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> I will have a Features page posted to the wiki by tomorrow morning (I have > been working on it for a few days now) and would like to get community input > on the features. Once it is ready there will be a link from the home page to > that Features page. The good spirit of a OSS guy!! This is the old Welcome message: http://nhforge.org/content/WelcomeMessage.aspx Try to re-read it: "If you are interested in starting to contribute by writing articles, providing content for a wiki, or provide value in any other way you can imagine, please feel free tocontact us <info{at}nhforge.org> (if you already have NH-related content of your own, we can even cross posting from your own blog)." Obviously you can sit down and write only some simple critic about the content of the site without move a single finger, it is the most easy thing to do. > John Davidson > > > On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 3:53 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Well, I agree with Fabio on that point : >> This is OSS; so the community needs some support. >> >> I think as user of the framework we also have some responsabilities (that >> comes >> with its great power ;-)) >> >> Selon Dietrich <[email protected]>: >> >> > I think the biggest issue with NHibernate is the lack of a solid home >> > page. NHForge.org seems abandoned to me and much of the information >> > seems out of dage, I thought things had moved to jboss for a while, >> > but now that's gone. It is such a wonderful technology but ask your >> > self if there is any one place a person can go to find out what the >> > features of the latest release are? >> > >> > On Jun 20, 8:09 am, [email protected] wrote: >> > > You still didn't read what I said. It is a pro bono flamming of one >> of >> > your >> > > suporter....What a great demonstration of the OSS mindset. >> > > >> > > You are 43, right, but since when are corporate using continuous >> > integration ? >> > > >> > > So my point was : >> > > Why instead of giving a release date and a release number (that's more >> a >> > > commercial software behavior); don't you just explain "The release is >> the >> > daily >> > > content of the trunk with a complete test base insuring a very high >> level >> > of >> > > quality ?". That would make things easier. >> > > >> > > I've no problem working on the trunk, and once again, I've no word to >> tell >> > how >> > > much I admire your (the nh team) work. >> > > >> > > What I told is what I've learned from my industry (a very specific one >> > thought) >> > > aver the last 12 years. >> > > Everyday I'm fighting against 'oracle is better than anyone', 'all >> must be >> > sql', >> > > 'n tiers architecture are top of the rope', and so on. >> > > I'm very proud to announce that we use NHibernate, Spring, or Ninject >> or >> > Apache >> > > MQ or any OSS Framework. And each time the question is : "What version >> ?" >> > > Why ? I don't know ! It like habits. Changing is difficult. >> > > The same way people in my industry are still believing that testing an >> app >> > is >> > > having 120 peoples using the gui and posting issues. That a release is >> a >> > build >> > > and 6 months of gui tests. I know you are probably laughting; but I'm >> in a >> > > situation where my clients have to remain secret.But if it was not the >> > case, it >> > > won't probably be funny anymore. >> > > >> > > Don't get me wrong Fabio, I share your though. >> > > But sometime, communication is important. >> > > >> > > Fred. >> > > >> > > Selon Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sorry for my mistake the below answer was sent in private... >> > > > See below if you are interested. >> > > >> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> > > > From: Fabio Maulo <[email protected]> >> > > > Date: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:11 AM >> > > > Subject: Re: [nhusers] NHibernate 3.0 Release Planned for June 2010? >> > > > To: [email protected] >> > > >> > > > Believe me that I known any points you are talking about but... this >> is >> > OSS >> > > > world. >> > > > We have no "marketing" issue because there is not a "marketing" >> > department >> > > > in our work. NHibernate is not a company and there is not a >> department at >> > > > all. >> > > > We know what mean "release" and only for that reason we will release >> > > > something at some point. >> > > > Because the quality is not achieved by chance, NHibernate has 2483 >> > > > integration tests with MsSQL2008 with a build server ( >> > > >> > > >> http://teamcity.codebetter.com/viewType.html;jsessionid=CD23C5C225E13... >> > > >> > > > ) >> > > > to check the state of each commit. >> > > >> > > > I'm 43 and in my professional life I saw very few commercial project >> with >> > > > this kind of requirement. >> > > >> > > > When a CTO ask me which is the state of the framework I'm proposing, >> I'm >> > > > asking him which is the state of his project and, in general, the >> quality >> > > > and requirements of NHibernate and of NH's team is a lot over his >> > > > requirements of his team. >> > > > OSS world has, in many many cases, more quality requirement than a >> > > > commercial product for the simply reason that we are producing >> software >> > > > because passion and not only because money. >> > > > Our exigence and our responsibility in front our OSS work is greater >> than >> > > > what a business project asks. >> > > >> > > > The main requirement to each NH's committer is: you can't commit >> > something >> > > > if there is a failing test. >> > > > The main requirement to accept a patch is: You must attach a failing >> test >> > to >> > > > an issue-tracker ticket. >> > > > Question: Is the trunk stable ? >> > > > Response: I don't know, what I can tell you is that the trunk does >> not >> > break >> > > > any of our 2483 tests as the previous release does not break any of >> 2xxx >> > > > tests (where 2xxx < 2483). >> > > >> > > > Have you some failing test for the actual trunk ? >> > > > You haven't ? >> > > > So ? >> > > > Which is your problem ? >> > > > If the actual trunk does not break any of your tests, well, the >> trunk is >> > > > your best choice because we have implemented some useful new >> features and >> > we >> > > > have fixed some bugs you never found. >> > > >> > > > The morality is... >> > > > Don't ask us more than what you are doing in your professional work >> > without >> > > > think which is the main difference between what you are receiving in >> your >> > > > profession and what you are giving to NHibernate. >> > > >> > > > Have a sit, take a coffee and enjoy the framework or... >> > > > you can now use EntityFramework4 and perhaps you can feel better >> asking >> > the >> > > > same quality to another better payed team. >> > > >> > > > Note: even the BIG commercial monster named Microsoft have >> understood >> > what >> > > > mean OSS (have a look to the last products as ASP.MVC, MEF and so on >> > without >> > > > talk aboutwww.codeplex.org)... perhaps is the time where some >> > > > small/microscopic monster can change his mind. >> > > >> > > > Roadmap: we hope to fix all of the actual existing open issues but >> > because >> > > > we know that it will be impossible we can only say you that we will >> > release >> > > > NH3 before the end of this year. >> > > >> > > > Fred, when somebody will ask you if "it is safe to go on with this >> > framework" >> > > > say him : "No, it is better to go to EntityFramework" >> > > >> > > > P.S. I'm doing it all the time but after 2 or 3 weeks I'm seeing the >> same >> > > > people back to NH... perhaps this is only a casuality, perhaps... >> the >> > > > quality is not achieved by chance >> > > >> > > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 10:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > > > Fabio, >> > > >> > > > > I think it depends on what is your job. I know a lot of corporate >> where >> > the >> > > > > developper can't use a framework not compliant with several >> criterias. >> > > >> > > > > If you are working on a project using nhibernate as I do (and i'm >> very >> > > > > happy >> > > > > with it); with a large number of entities, it is still very >> usefull to >> > > > > forecast >> > > > > a migration process, take time to learn the new functionnalities >> to >> > really >> > > > > leverage the new version. >> > > >> > > > > But I still agree that the "official release" considering nh is >> more >> > about >> > > > > "marketing" than stability. There is a good test base and the >> trunk is >> > > > > stable. >> > > > > Well that's continuous integration... >> > > >> > > > > I guess it is like using SQL : you are always fighting dinosaure. >> > > >> > > > > So when you can select and choose, it doesn't matter. But if your >> job >> > is to >> > > > > recommand a technology; it is difficult to get credit if you don't >> have >> > > > > perspective on the roadmap. >> > > >> > > > > I don't want to flame the post, but a similar situation occurs for >> me a >> > > > > couple >> > > > > of month ago : we choose a framework for a particular task, and >> there >> > was a >> > > > > roadmap identifying key relase dates; with the supposed new >> > > > > functionnalities. >> > > > > The first release is now over 6 months lates, and now a lot of >> people >> > are >> > > > > asking >> > > > > if it is safe to go on with this framework. >> > > >> > > > > I do think that the answer is : don't give any roadmap if you have >> no >> > > > > intention >> > > > > of being in time. I mean, you've made quite an amazing job with >> > NHibernate, >> > > > > you >> > > > > don't really need this kind of question to put discredit on the >> release >> > > > > process. >> > > > > That's the way things are in it : If you say you release, everyone >> is >> > > > > expecting >> > > > > you to release on time; and everyone THINKS that what is between >> two >> > > > > releases is >> > > > > under dev or completely buggy. >> > > >> > > > > Regards, >> > > >> > > > > Fred. >> > > >> > > > > Selon Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>: >> > > >> > > > > > No ? are you sure ? >> > > > > > we are using trunk of NH, trunk of NHV, trunk of NHCH, trunk of >> > > > > NHSpatial, >> > > > > > trunk of NHSerach, trunk of uNHAddIns, trunk of ConfORM in >> > production. >> > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk >> > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: >> > > >> > > > > > > I think it is important when planning a project manager types >> are >> > > > > > > often not happy to use beta versions. >> > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Paco Wensveen < >> [email protected]> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > I always wonder why people care about release dates. What >> does it >> > > > > > > > matter if it is released or not (except political reasons)? >> I do >> > > > > > > > understand someone is interested in the release of a >> specific >> > > > > feature, >> > > > > > > > but for NHibernate, it will be the same code as the trunk. >> The >> > > > > > > > revision will be labeled and be called a release on that day >> I >> > guess. >> > > >> > > > > > > -- >> > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google >> > > > > Groups >> > > > > > > "nhusers" group. >> > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> . >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > >> > > > >> > [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> >> <nhusers%[email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> <nhusers%[email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> >> <nhusers%[email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > . >> > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at >> > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. >> > > >> > > > > > -- >> > > > > > Fabio Maulo >> > > >> > > > > > -- >> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google >> > Groups >> > > > > > "nhusers" group. >> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > >> > > > >> > [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> >> <nhusers%[email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> >> > >> > > > > . >> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at >> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. >> > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Fabio Maulo >> > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Fabio Maulo >> > > >> > > > -- >> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > > > "nhusers" group. >> > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > > [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> >> . >> > > > For more options, visit this group at >> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "nhusers" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "nhusers" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "nhusers" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. > -- Fabio Maulo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nhusers" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en.
