Well, I agree with Fabio on that point : This is OSS; so the community needs some support.
I think as user of the framework we also have some responsabilities (that comes with its great power ;-)) Selon Dietrich <[email protected]>: > I think the biggest issue with NHibernate is the lack of a solid home > page. NHForge.org seems abandoned to me and much of the information > seems out of dage, I thought things had moved to jboss for a while, > but now that's gone. It is such a wonderful technology but ask your > self if there is any one place a person can go to find out what the > features of the latest release are? > > On Jun 20, 8:09 am, [email protected] wrote: > > You still didn't read what I said. It is a pro bono flamming of one of > your > > suporter....What a great demonstration of the OSS mindset. > > > > You are 43, right, but since when are corporate using continuous > integration ? > > > > So my point was : > > Why instead of giving a release date and a release number (that's more a > > commercial software behavior); don't you just explain "The release is the > daily > > content of the trunk with a complete test base insuring a very high level > of > > quality ?". That would make things easier. > > > > I've no problem working on the trunk, and once again, I've no word to tell > how > > much I admire your (the nh team) work. > > > > What I told is what I've learned from my industry (a very specific one > thought) > > aver the last 12 years. > > Everyday I'm fighting against 'oracle is better than anyone', 'all must be > sql', > > 'n tiers architecture are top of the rope', and so on. > > I'm very proud to announce that we use NHibernate, Spring, or Ninject or > Apache > > MQ or any OSS Framework. And each time the question is : "What version ?" > > Why ? I don't know ! It like habits. Changing is difficult. > > The same way people in my industry are still believing that testing an app > is > > having 120 peoples using the gui and posting issues. That a release is a > build > > and 6 months of gui tests. I know you are probably laughting; but I'm in a > > situation where my clients have to remain secret.But if it was not the > case, it > > won't probably be funny anymore. > > > > Don't get me wrong Fabio, I share your though. > > But sometime, communication is important. > > > > Fred. > > > > Selon Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > Sorry for my mistake the below answer was sent in private... > > > See below if you are interested. > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Fabio Maulo <[email protected]> > > > Date: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:11 AM > > > Subject: Re: [nhusers] NHibernate 3.0 Release Planned for June 2010? > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Believe me that I known any points you are talking about but... this is > OSS > > > world. > > > We have no "marketing" issue because there is not a "marketing" > department > > > in our work. NHibernate is not a company and there is not a department at > > > all. > > > We know what mean "release" and only for that reason we will release > > > something at some point. > > > Because the quality is not achieved by chance, NHibernate has 2483 > > > integration tests with MsSQL2008 with a build server ( > > > > http://teamcity.codebetter.com/viewType.html;jsessionid=CD23C5C225E13... > > > > > ) > > > to check the state of each commit. > > > > > I'm 43 and in my professional life I saw very few commercial project with > > > this kind of requirement. > > > > > When a CTO ask me which is the state of the framework I'm proposing, I'm > > > asking him which is the state of his project and, in general, the quality > > > and requirements of NHibernate and of NH's team is a lot over his > > > requirements of his team. > > > OSS world has, in many many cases, more quality requirement than a > > > commercial product for the simply reason that we are producing software > > > because passion and not only because money. > > > Our exigence and our responsibility in front our OSS work is greater than > > > what a business project asks. > > > > > The main requirement to each NH's committer is: you can't commit > something > > > if there is a failing test. > > > The main requirement to accept a patch is: You must attach a failing test > to > > > an issue-tracker ticket. > > > Question: Is the trunk stable ? > > > Response: I don't know, what I can tell you is that the trunk does not > break > > > any of our 2483 tests as the previous release does not break any of 2xxx > > > tests (where 2xxx < 2483). > > > > > Have you some failing test for the actual trunk ? > > > You haven't ? > > > So ? > > > Which is your problem ? > > > If the actual trunk does not break any of your tests, well, the trunk is > > > your best choice because we have implemented some useful new features and > we > > > have fixed some bugs you never found. > > > > > The morality is... > > > Don't ask us more than what you are doing in your professional work > without > > > think which is the main difference between what you are receiving in your > > > profession and what you are giving to NHibernate. > > > > > Have a sit, take a coffee and enjoy the framework or... > > > you can now use EntityFramework4 and perhaps you can feel better asking > the > > > same quality to another better payed team. > > > > > Note: even the BIG commercial monster named Microsoft have understood > what > > > mean OSS (have a look to the last products as ASP.MVC, MEF and so on > without > > > talk aboutwww.codeplex.org)... perhaps is the time where some > > > small/microscopic monster can change his mind. > > > > > Roadmap: we hope to fix all of the actual existing open issues but > because > > > we know that it will be impossible we can only say you that we will > release > > > NH3 before the end of this year. > > > > > Fred, when somebody will ask you if "it is safe to go on with this > framework" > > > say him : "No, it is better to go to EntityFramework" > > > > > P.S. I'm doing it all the time but after 2 or 3 weeks I'm seeing the same > > > people back to NH... perhaps this is only a casuality, perhaps... the > > > quality is not achieved by chance > > > > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 10:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Fabio, > > > > > > I think it depends on what is your job. I know a lot of corporate where > the > > > > developper can't use a framework not compliant with several criterias. > > > > > > If you are working on a project using nhibernate as I do (and i'm very > > > > happy > > > > with it); with a large number of entities, it is still very usefull to > > > > forecast > > > > a migration process, take time to learn the new functionnalities to > really > > > > leverage the new version. > > > > > > But I still agree that the "official release" considering nh is more > about > > > > "marketing" than stability. There is a good test base and the trunk is > > > > stable. > > > > Well that's continuous integration... > > > > > > I guess it is like using SQL : you are always fighting dinosaure. > > > > > > So when you can select and choose, it doesn't matter. But if your job > is to > > > > recommand a technology; it is difficult to get credit if you don't have > > > > perspective on the roadmap. > > > > > > I don't want to flame the post, but a similar situation occurs for me a > > > > couple > > > > of month ago : we choose a framework for a particular task, and there > was a > > > > roadmap identifying key relase dates; with the supposed new > > > > functionnalities. > > > > The first release is now over 6 months lates, and now a lot of people > are > > > > asking > > > > if it is safe to go on with this framework. > > > > > > I do think that the answer is : don't give any roadmap if you have no > > > > intention > > > > of being in time. I mean, you've made quite an amazing job with > NHibernate, > > > > you > > > > don't really need this kind of question to put discredit on the release > > > > process. > > > > That's the way things are in it : If you say you release, everyone is > > > > expecting > > > > you to release on time; and everyone THINKS that what is between two > > > > releases is > > > > under dev or completely buggy. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Fred. > > > > > > Selon Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > No ? are you sure ? > > > > > we are using trunk of NH, trunk of NHV, trunk of NHCH, trunk of > > > > NHSpatial, > > > > > trunk of NHSerach, trunk of uNHAddIns, trunk of ConfORM in > production. > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > I think it is important when planning a project manager types are > > > > > > often not happy to use beta versions. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Paco Wensveen <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I always wonder why people care about release dates. What does it > > > > > > > matter if it is released or not (except political reasons)? I do > > > > > > > understand someone is interested in the release of a specific > > > > feature, > > > > > > > but for NHibernate, it will be the same code as the trunk. The > > > > > > > revision will be labeled and be called a release on that day I > guess. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups > > > > > > "nhusers" group. > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> > > > > > <nhusers%[email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Fabio Maulo > > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > > > "nhusers" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > [email protected]<nhusers%[email protected]> > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > Fabio Maulo > > > > > -- > > > Fabio Maulo > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "nhusers" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "nhusers" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nhusers" group. 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