I would be happy to contribute too, but I do not have any formal experience in documentation and don't think I'd be up to the task of documenting the whole of NHibernate.
On Jun 21, 9:10 am, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]> wrote: > On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 7:50 AM, John Davidson <[email protected]> wrote: > > I will have a Features page posted to the wiki by tomorrow morning (I have > > been working on it for a few days now) and would like to get community input > > on the features. Once it is ready there will be a link from the home page to > > that Features page. > > The good spirit of a OSS guy!! > > This is the old Welcome message:http://nhforge.org/content/WelcomeMessage.aspx > > Try to re-read it: > "If you are interested in starting to contribute by writing articles, > providing content for a wiki, or provide value in any other way you can > imagine, please feel free tocontact us <info{at}nhforge.org> (if you already > have NH-related content of your own, we can even cross posting from your own > blog)." > > Obviously you can sit down and write only some simple critic about the > content of the site without move a single finger, it is the most easy thing > to do. > > > > > John Davidson > > > On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 3:53 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Well, I agree with Fabio on that point : > >> This is OSS; so the community needs some support. > > >> I think as user of the framework we also have some responsabilities (that > >> comes > >> with its great power ;-)) > > >> Selon Dietrich <[email protected]>: > > >> > I think the biggest issue with NHibernate is the lack of a solid home > >> > page. NHForge.org seems abandoned to me and much of the information > >> > seems out of dage, I thought things had moved to jboss for a while, > >> > but now that's gone. It is such a wonderful technology but ask your > >> > self if there is any one place a person can go to find out what the > >> > features of the latest release are? > > >> > On Jun 20, 8:09 am, [email protected] wrote: > >> > > You still didn't read what I said. It is a pro bono flamming of one > >> of > >> > your > >> > > suporter....What a great demonstration of the OSS mindset. > > >> > > You are 43, right, but since when are corporate using continuous > >> > integration ? > > >> > > So my point was : > >> > > Why instead of giving a release date and a release number (that's more > >> a > >> > > commercial software behavior); don't you just explain "The release is > >> the > >> > daily > >> > > content of the trunk with a complete test base insuring a very high > >> level > >> > of > >> > > quality ?". That would make things easier. > > >> > > I've no problem working on the trunk, and once again, I've no word to > >> tell > >> > how > >> > > much I admire your (the nh team) work. > > >> > > What I told is what I've learned from my industry (a very specific one > >> > thought) > >> > > aver the last 12 years. > >> > > Everyday I'm fighting against 'oracle is better than anyone', 'all > >> must be > >> > sql', > >> > > 'n tiers architecture are top of the rope', and so on. > >> > > I'm very proud to announce that we use NHibernate, Spring, or Ninject > >> or > >> > Apache > >> > > MQ or any OSS Framework. And each time the question is : "What version > >> ?" > >> > > Why ? I don't know ! It like habits. Changing is difficult. > >> > > The same way people in my industry are still believing that testing an > >> app > >> > is > >> > > having 120 peoples using the gui and posting issues. That a release is > >> a > >> > build > >> > > and 6 months of gui tests. I know you are probably laughting; but I'm > >> in a > >> > > situation where my clients have to remain secret.But if it was not the > >> > case, it > >> > > won't probably be funny anymore. > > >> > > Don't get me wrong Fabio, I share your though. > >> > > But sometime, communication is important. > > >> > > Fred. > > >> > > Selon Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>: > > >> > > > Sorry for my mistake the below answer was sent in private... > >> > > > See below if you are interested. > > >> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> > > > From: Fabio Maulo <[email protected]> > >> > > > Date: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:11 AM > >> > > > Subject: Re: [nhusers] NHibernate 3.0 Release Planned for June 2010? > >> > > > To: [email protected] > > >> > > > Believe me that I known any points you are talking about but... this > >> is > >> > OSS > >> > > > world. > >> > > > We have no "marketing" issue because there is not a "marketing" > >> > department > >> > > > in our work. NHibernate is not a company and there is not a > >> department at > >> > > > all. > >> > > > We know what mean "release" and only for that reason we will release > >> > > > something at some point. > >> > > > Because the quality is not achieved by chance, NHibernate has 2483 > >> > > > integration tests with MsSQL2008 with a build server ( > > >>http://teamcity.codebetter.com/viewType.html;jsessionid=CD23C5C225E13... > > >> > > > ) > >> > > > to check the state of each commit. > > >> > > > I'm 43 and in my professional life I saw very few commercial project > >> with > >> > > > this kind of requirement. > > >> > > > When a CTO ask me which is the state of the framework I'm proposing, > >> I'm > >> > > > asking him which is the state of his project and, in general, the > >> quality > >> > > > and requirements of NHibernate and of NH's team is a lot over his > >> > > > requirements of his team. > >> > > > OSS world has, in many many cases, more quality requirement than a > >> > > > commercial product for the simply reason that we are producing > >> software > >> > > > because passion and not only because money. > >> > > > Our exigence and our responsibility in front our OSS work is greater > >> than > >> > > > what a business project asks. > > >> > > > The main requirement to each NH's committer is: you can't commit > >> > something > >> > > > if there is a failing test. > >> > > > The main requirement to accept a patch is: You must attach a failing > >> test > >> > to > >> > > > an issue-tracker ticket. > >> > > > Question: Is the trunk stable ? > >> > > > Response: I don't know, what I can tell you is that the trunk does > >> not > >> > break > >> > > > any of our 2483 tests as the previous release does not break any of > >> 2xxx > >> > > > tests (where 2xxx < 2483). > > >> > > > Have you some failing test for the actual trunk ? > >> > > > You haven't ? > >> > > > So ? > >> > > > Which is your problem ? > >> > > > If the actual trunk does not break any of your tests, well, the > >> trunk is > >> > > > your best choice because we have implemented some useful new > >> features and > >> > we > >> > > > have fixed some bugs you never found. > > >> > > > The morality is... > >> > > > Don't ask us more than what you are doing in your professional work > >> > without > >> > > > think which is the main difference between what you are receiving in > >> your > >> > > > profession and what you are giving to NHibernate. > > >> > > > Have a sit, take a coffee and enjoy the framework or... > >> > > > you can now use EntityFramework4 and perhaps you can feel better > >> asking > >> > the > >> > > > same quality to another better payed team. > > >> > > > Note: even the BIG commercial monster named Microsoft have > >> understood > >> > what > >> > > > mean OSS (have a look to the last products as ASP.MVC, MEF and so on > >> > without > >> > > > talk aboutwww.codeplex.org)... perhaps is the time where some > >> > > > small/microscopic monster can change his mind. > > >> > > > Roadmap: we hope to fix all of the actual existing open issues but > >> > because > >> > > > we know that it will be impossible we can only say you that we will > >> > release > >> > > > NH3 before the end of this year. > > >> > > > Fred, when somebody will ask you if "it is safe to go on with this > >> > framework" > >> > > > say him : "No, it is better to go to EntityFramework" > > >> > > > P.S. I'm doing it all the time but after 2 or 3 weeks I'm seeing the > >> same > >> > > > people back to NH... perhaps this is only a casuality, perhaps... > >> the > >> > > > quality is not achieved by chance > > >> > > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 10:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > Fabio, > > >> > > > > I think it depends on what is your job. I know a lot of corporate > >> where > >> > the > >> > > > > developper can't use a framework not compliant with several > >> criterias. > > >> > > > > If you are working on a project using nhibernate as I do (and i'm > >> very > >> > > > > happy > >> > > > > with it); with a large number of entities, it is still very > >> usefull to > >> > > > > forecast > >> > > > > a migration process, take time to learn the new functionnalities > >> to > >> > really > >> > > > > leverage the new version. > > >> > > > > But I still agree that the "official release" considering nh is > >> more > >> > about > >> > > > > "marketing" than stability. There is a good test base and the > >> trunk is > >> > > > > stable. > >> > > > > Well that's continuous integration... > > >> > > > > I guess it is like using SQL : you are always fighting dinosaure. > > >> > > > > So when you can select and choose, it doesn't matter. But if your > >> job > >> > is to > >> > > > > recommand a technology; it is difficult to get credit if you don't > >> have > >> > > > > perspective on the roadmap. > > >> > > > > I don't want to flame the post, but a similar situation occurs for > >> me a > >> > > > > couple > >> > > > > of month ago : we choose a framework for a particular task, and > >> there > >> > was a > >> > > > > roadmap identifying key relase dates; with the supposed new > >> > > > > functionnalities. > >> > > > > The first release is now over 6 months lates, and now a lot of > >> people > >> > are > >> > > > > asking > >> > > > > if it is safe to go on with this framework. > > >> > > > > I do think that the answer is : don't give any roadmap if you have > >> no > >> > > > > intention > >> > > > > of being in time. I mean, you've made quite an amazing job with > >> > NHibernate, > >> > > > > you > >> > > > > don't really need this kind of question to put discredit on the > >> release > >> > > > > process. > >> > > > > That's the way things are in it : If you say you release, everyone > >> is > >> > > > > expecting > >> > > > > you to release on time; and everyone THINKS that what is between > >> two > >> > > > > releases is > >> > > > > under dev or completely buggy.... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nhusers" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nhusers?hl=en.
