You are right, Dennis, and it's like Graham said in a very recent post: what he said probably didn't clear up a doggone thing - it is very confusing, and your "whatever" is a great response... Gotta love it!!!
--- On Wed, 2/3/10, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote: From: Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Carb/K&N Tunning To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 10:08 PM You did it too.. 30 thousandth is .030 (or three hundredth) .003 is three thousandth. That is why we write it out. It doesn't matter what it's called, as long as the person can read a dimension from an instrument. Every field has it's own terminology. As far as reading instruments goes, most folks don't have a clue and even after some training still get it wrong. I think that this remote diagnosis deal gets harder when you factor in the terminology problem. I really do try to be as detailed as I can. If I you told I never made any mistakes passing info, I'd be lying. People that can't describe a problem in a manner that I can understand, I can't help. More and more people use some sort of shorthand speak that doesn't relate enough details to be useful. I've been told I always get in on something late here. That's because I think about it first and then about how to word my reply. I'd like to be understood the first time if only to save somebody some time. Edwin Land said something to the effect "if you can state the problem correctly, somebody will answer it" Never truer words. Lots of times, I just don't grasp what's being said and can't even start to reply. Mostly, a process is pretty easy. The more technical it gets the harder it becomes. I worked in a shop way back when and the foreman was big on telling you how to do something but never why. You did our job and didn't learn anything. I try to explain why something doesn't work but I suspect most folks would rather just know how to "fix it"... not my style. I taught secondary vo-tech for a couple of years and the kids were great, they wanted to know how stuff worked. The evening adult ed.classes were totally different. I had to get past embedded ideas first to even start. They only wanted to know how not why. I suppose I could be more brief and get to the point, but what good would that serve ? Isn't it better to know the reason something doesn't work ? To make this long story shorter, I try not to be specific in dimensions too often unless it's called for. I know all too well how easy it is to confuse some. I've been called on an error, and I accept that. We all make 'em. From: stanley/ Randolph <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 6:34:36 PM Subject: Re: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Carb/K&N Tunning I used to work for Boeing. We had 30 thousandths (0.003),when fabricating templates to make parts. If it was critical, we had one thousandth (0.001). That means we had what amounted to the thickness of the line we scribed on the template in the purple paint we used to show the lines we transferred from a blueprint on mylar made to actual size for the tool to make the part. Back then, a no-brain guy sitting on a stool operating an impact set to proper torque in an auto factory was earning about $25/hr; we were earning $3.29/hr. Minimum wage was $1.25/hr and had just gone up from $0.75/hr a year or two before. Do you remember what a step-thru 50 sold for? Stanley --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Dennis Hammerla <[email protected]> wrote: From: Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Carb/K&N Tunning To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:13 PM It's a matter of semantics. In my game .11 is called eleven tens. Then .011 is eleven hundredth and .0011 is eleven thousandth. As the kids say, whatever. From: Glen <[email protected]> To: Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers! <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 11:16:27 PM Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Carb/K&N Tunning Dennis: If 0.005 is five thousandths (agree) then 0.011 is eleven thousandths not eleven hundreths. eleven hundreths would be 0.11 The diammeters I reported were written on the labels and then confirmed by my mic. I passed a 0.013 inch wire ( measured and printed on the label) through a #38 jet. Glen On Feb 2, 4:40 pm, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote: > OK, take a deep breath and let's review. I specified .005" for a #35 jet. > That's five one thousandth of an inch. > further, .011" is eleven hundredth and waaay too big. I don't have a > measurement for a #40 at hand. > > ________________________________ > From: Glen <[email protected]> > To: Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers! <[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 5:57:40 PM > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Carb/K&N Tunning > > Dennis: > > I thought I was missreading my micrometer so I got out several items > of known diammeter to check. Labeling on fishing lines these days > tells you both pound test and diammeter of the line. So since I have > eveything from 300# down to 6# line I started checking labels and > verifying with my micrometer. I have a caliper style mic and the > smallest increment mark is 0.001" as indicated on the face of the > dial. The results are the following: > > 200# line is 0.050 inch (1.27 mm), > 40# line is 0.025 inch (0.64 mm), > 17# line is 0.015 inch (0.38 mm) > 12# line is 0.013 inch (0.33 mm), > 6# line is 0.010 inch (0.25 mm) > > You can check most fishing supply catalogs online at Cabelas or Bass > Pro and you will find similar line diameters (manufactures vary). > > So as I said, I can pass a 0.013" (0.33 mm) wire through a new Keihin > #38 slow jets but I can not pass a 0.015" (0.38 mm). Confirmed this is > not a typo 13/1000. > > Therefore, I believe you were right the first time with a#35 slow jet > bore diameter at 0.011" (0.279 mm). > > You work in shop right, pull a few jets off the shelf and check them. > > Glen > > On Feb 1, 11:38 pm, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Add another zero.... .005" not .05. > > > ________________________________ > > From: Glen <[email protected]> > > To: Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers! <[email protected]> > > Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 9:11:56 PM > > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Carb/K&N Tunning > > > Dennis: > > > I think you had the slow jet size right the first time. I tried to re- > > wire my slow jets as you suggested with a 0.050 drill bit and broke it > > off in the jet when I tried to tap it through and it got stuck. I > > ordered four new original Kein #38 slow jets which is the next size up > > from the factory #35. I am able to pass a 0.013 inch wire but not a > > 0.015 through the new #38. If a #38 is bigger than a #35 it seems to > > reason that a #35 is likley smaller than 0.013 and certainly not 4 > > times larger at 0.050 > > > A frame of reference for those without a pair of micrometers: > > > 200# mono fishing line is 0.050 inch, > > 40# mono fishing line is 0.025 inch, > > 12# mono fishing line is 0.013 inch, > > 6# mono fishing line is 0.010 inch > > > Glen > > > On Jan 15, 10:37 pm, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > You're at sea level.... 40 maybe. Clean 35 first. > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Snookfever <[email protected]> > > > To: Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers! <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 10:26:18 PM > > > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Carb/K&N Tunning > > > > Dennis: > > > > What do you think about up sizzing to a 40 or 42 slow jet? > > > > Looking forward to alignment... left side of tire is less then 50%. > > > > On Jan 15, 10:05 pm, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yes. Reclean. My mistake. It was pointed out to me and went back and > > > > measured the exact sizes. > > > > Correct alignment ? I'll prepare a list of needed tools. Time consuming > > > > and sometimes disappointing. > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Snookfever <[email protected]> > > > > To: Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers! <[email protected]> > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 9:51:32 PM > > > > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Carb/K&N Tunning > > > > > Dennis: > > > > > If the slow jet is #38 is 0.005" then when I wired it last year with a > > > > 0.0011 diameter wire I did not clean it properly to 0.005". Should I > > > > try cleaning them again with a 0.005" wire or buy new ones? > > > > > How do I correct alignment? > > > > > On Jan 15, 9:37 pm, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > The alignment of your bike is off, shifting the contact point from > > > > > the center of the tire to one side. You broke off before getting to > > > > > fine tuning a chassis. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Snookfever <[email protected]> > > > > > To: Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers! <[email protected]> > > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 9:06:49 PM > > > > > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Carb/K&N Tunning > > > > > > I am on my own, but thanks to the NH Lovers and folks like Dennis H, I > > > > > am learning... > > > > > > Still puzzled about my tire wear issue, may check archive. > > > > > > On Jan 15, 8:58 pm, Kyle Munz <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Well, good luck :) I'm just grateful that I know ppl that speak > > > > > > carburetor. > > > > > > > -Kyle > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Snookfever > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Kyle: > > > > > > > > Thanks I found a message from Dennis from May of 2009 on the > > > > > > > subject > > > > > > > of 700S carb: > > > > > > > > Dennis wrote: "The actuall size of the hole in a slow jet (#38) > > > > > > > is . > > > > > > > 0011" That's eleven ten thousands of an inch. No typo." > > > > > > > > Final Jepoardy : I found two Keihin slow jets N424-21 and N424-26 > > > > > > > (http://www.pjmotorsports.com/keihin_jets_&_parts.htm) The > > > > > > > diiference > > > > > > > being the length 28 mm vs 23.5 mm. I think its N424-21 > > > > > > > > Since the Keihin slow jets range in size from (35, 38, 40, 42, > > > > > > > 45, 48, > > > > > > > 50, 52, 55, 58, 60, 62, 65, 68, 70, 72, 75, 78, 80) and they are > > > > > > > $7 > > > > > > > each I may buy a set of size 40 and 42. > > > > > > > > On Jan 15, 8:14 pm, Kyle Munz <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Just go > > > > > > > > tohttp://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_loversandinthetop > > > > > > > > right corner is a 'search this group' box. As to translating > > > > > > > > jet sizes I > > > > > > > > have no idea how that's done, I just went with what Dennis said > > > > > > > > he'd > > > > > > > > measured. The kit I got from starcycle came with two sizes to > > > > > > > > choose > > > > > > > from, > > > > > > > > we simply went with the smaller of the two because I wanted to > > > > > > > > maintain > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > semblance of gas mileage. They worked great so I've still got > > > > > > > > the larger > > > > > > > > sized jets in the box. > > > > > > > > > -Kyle > > > > > > > > -Sent from Houston, TX, United States > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Snookfever > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Kyle: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, how did you search old messages? I recall a message > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Dennis last year when I first cleaned the carbs and I thought > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > indicated the slow jet being 0.0011. I remember sanding a > > > > > > > > > leader wire > > > > > > > > > to clean it. Several web sites sell jets for Keihin carbs, > > > > > > > > > but the > > > > > > > > > size range is 35-80. How do you translate the size number to > > > > > > > > > the bore > > > > > > > > > diameter? > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 15, 7:49 pm, Kyle Munz <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, what I learned about jet sizes, is that > > > > > > > > > > they're > > > > > > > arbitrary. > > > > > > > > > > What one company might call a #35 for example doesn't > > > > > > > > > > really mean > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > to others. I think honda calls the stock jets #115 and #35. > > > > > > > > > > A quick > > > > > > > > > search > > > > > > > > > > of the group's archived messages turns up a msg from Dennis > > > > > > > translating > > > > > > > > > > those to inches for us. > > > > > > > > > > > The size of the #115 main jet in your bike is .041" > > > > > > > > > > > > The #35 is .005" > > > > > > > > > > > -Kyle > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Snookfever > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Kyle: > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you recall the size of the slow jet you used? > > > > > > > > > > > > Allen: > > > > > > > > > > > > The K&N lets in more air but slower air which mean less > > > > > > > > > > > fuel/ > > > > > > > > > > > leaner.The cup inside the K&N does not restrict air flow > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > accelerates it so it can pick up more fuel.. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 15, 1:40 pm, Allen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyle, if you had to put a yogurt cup in the air cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > restrict > > > > > > > > > > > > flow (richen the mixture) then I would think that it is > > > > > > > > > > > > too lean > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > you should have put in the bigger jets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 14, 6:49 pm, Kyle Munz <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All we changed were the slow jets. The kit came with > > > > > > > > > > > > > two sizes > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > > > > the smaller set. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Kyle- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to > > > > > > > > > > > the Google > > > > > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > > > > > "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. > > > > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]<nighthawk_lovers%2bunsubscrib[email protected]> > > > > > > > <nighthawk_lovers%[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > <nighthawk_lovers%[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en.-Hidequoted > > > > > > > > > text - > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > > > > > > > > Google > > > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > > > "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. > > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > . > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. 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