Again, "gasoline" isn't a single chemical compound, and most of the name-brand stations load up their base stock with all kinds of additive packages. Ethanol aside, generally you /do/ get better performance/mileage/longevity running the name brand gasolines, simply because they are doing that load up. You're also paying for those additive packages, as they're often a fair amount higher than the "discount" brands.
Most of the issues with sudden ethanol introduction are the same experienced when suddenly adding biodiesel to an engine that's been running petroleum based diesel for a long time. Most of the materials used in engines, even as far back as the 70s, are ethanol compatible. Many of the rubbers, especially, are more compatible with ethanol than they are with gasoline! The problem is that over time, these rubbers absorb some of the chemicals in gasoline. It's expected, the engineers know about it, and it's a tolerable result that's within their expectations. The problem is that ethanol /pulls these chemicals back out/. With biodiesel, this leads to leaks, mushy hoses, degraded and shrunken seals, and so on and so forth, so of course people start screaming that "biodiesel is attacking my seals/hoses/diaphragms!" without ever realising that it was in fact the /diesel/ that's been slowly degrading the rubber. With gasoline, some of the components absorbed by the rubber over time serve as softeners and plasticizers, keeping the rubber soft and pliable when the environment and heat and vibrations keep trying to dry it out and crack it. These chemicals being absorbed allow you to run the hose long past it's design life; the ethanol makes this fact blatantly clear, as the formerly pliable rubbers suddenly stiffen, crack and then leak when the ethanol dissolves the chemicals back out of the rubber. We have a small motor. It's about eight years old, lives in a riding mower. We bought it used, from an owner that ran marina gas through it (generally the stuff he drained out of his boat, since he believed in storing the boat with an empty tank). Thus, no ethanol for its first 5-6 years of life. We run regular pump gas through it. When we first started doing this, it leaked a little. We replaced hoses. Then the carburetor gummed up. We took it apart, cleaned it out, and put a new diaphragm in it. Ever since, no problems whatsoever. Hmmmmm.... My next step is I hope to swap it over to running on propane, then milling down the head a little to bump compression. A sidevalve design means that I can successfully do this without having to worry about adjusting valve rockers, just a quick unbolt, flat mill, and bolt it back down. I seek improvements in fuel economy and oil longevity in all the equipment! I would very much like to keep the politics on all sides out of this, focus on the science of the issue. What ethanol does and does not do, it's energy content or lack thereof, compatibility and so on. Politics is an arena where nobody wins in the end, whereas science exists to be challenged and questioned and defended, in the hopes that the facts win out. -Kurt On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 6:52 PM, stanley/ Randolph <[email protected]>wrote: > If you will note, I was speaking of back when; and yes, most tanks are > probably ABS now, along with a not of other parts that don't need to resist > a lot of heat and yet can withstand most of the heat under a normal hood. > I was referring to your seemingly knee-jerk reaction to people who get very > vociferous when ethanol and methanol are mentioned. > Yes, alcohols, being covalent, take either or and by nature suck up water; > and hence, cause problems in rusting tanks, without rust inhibitors. It - > alcohol - may hold water tightly, but it is still present and is in contact > with the surfaces of the tank, lines, etc. > And again, I was referring to persons who have been through the experience > and don't like the results. Ford in particular had a styrofoam float in > their carbs that dissolved after a few tankfuls. Others have experienced > serious troubles with small engines, and it is for the reasons you mention: > the chemical composition of rubber parts being susceptible to the ethanol. > They dry out prematurely and can no longer function. I aquired a > virtually brand new edger because the diaphragm carburetor's diaphragm > became too stiff to move the gasoline. > I am no chemist, no chemical engineer, but I know experientially and > anecdotally the problems caused by ethanol, and I think that there are times > when the percentage is a lot more than they are claiming, because of the > seriousness of the resulting problems. Carb diaphragms don't go stiff * > that* quickly. One practically needs to use fuel saver to protect the > more delicate parts of the carburetors of older lawn mower and other > small engines. > Personally I don't care for ethanol in my fuel, and I don't like the > dictators telling me what they think is good for me either. I am > intelligent enough that I don't need some elite Harvard or Brown or Cornel > --- on and on ad nauseam -grad telling me what is best for me. > I don't like the government, like Jefferson, telling me to give my money to > some high paid do-nothing exec at Chrysler or GM when they deserve to fail > for lack of innovation and for the laws that they had promulgated to protect > themselves from people who might have something more efficient and safer and > better performing to offer. > Like I said in another post, Honda would never have gotten his bikes and > cars off to a start if he had been born in the States. Tucker was, and look > what they did to him. We would not be experiencing this conversation. > And I am not convinced that the alcohol, even though it *holds* the water, > is not going to cause problems with it being present therein. > My 250 Honda *did* perform better and achieve better mileage on Shell; and > now that I am thinking of it, it probably *was *because back then, there > wasn't any ethanol in their gasoline. > It (my 250) performed better on Shell regular than it did on Murphy mid or > high grade. Or Racetrac. And Petron wasn't the one delivering to Shell. > That's the local tanker distributor serving almost all of the generic and > some brand name stations in this area. By perform, I mean better > acceleration, better top speed, better mileage. And better idle also. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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