Maybe he has vera fides. On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:05 PM, Gary Slinger <[email protected]>wrote:
> **That's funny, because I was thinking of saying the same thing to you. > > My bona fides are all over the net. WTF are you? > > I don't notice a denial that you're a dev. Are you? What, one, two years > in? > > ------------------------------ > *From: *Tigran K <[email protected]> > *Date: *Mon, 1 Aug 2011 20:00:56 -0700 > *To: *NT System Admin Issues<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: *"NT System Admin Issues" <[email protected] > > > *Subject: *Re: PMI PMP Certification > > Let me know when you grow up. > > --T > > On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Gary Slinger <[email protected]>wrote: > >> "Usually resorting to personal attacks means you have run out of >> arguments. It's a form of fallacy.", no, it's a lack of tolerance for >> stupidity. >> >> "The example I gave was simplified for your benefit.". Case in point. >> You posted a moronic example without clarification. Therefore, I draw a >> fair and reasonable conclusion that you're a moron. >> >> "They both work for you then you are the problem." - really? I'm a line >> of business manager now. You're wrong. Again. >> >> "My argument is in IT and more specifically with PM rank and pay. I'm sure >> a PM in building move doesn't command same salary as IT PM." - in a pure IT >> company? Likely so. In industry? IT's "just another project" if you're >> doing it right. So you're wrong. Again. Noticing a trend yet? >> >> "You can't get out of your shell and see how my method...." - I've got >> more than 20 years experience with large and small, good and bad. I've seen >> plenty of methods. Usually from highly qualified folks that actually HAVE >> methods, not some random internet dude that claims "his" method. >> >> "The PM is just a middle man. Cut him out." - you're a dev, aren't you? >> Guess what? The world doesn't revolve around you. This statement from you, >> above all others, shows me your level of business incompetence. (Stick >> around, next reply I'll actually get personal). >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Tigran K <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Usually resorting to personal attacks means you have run out of >>> arguments. It's a form of fallacy. >>> >>> The example I gave was simplified for your benefit. The example is based >>> on multi-million project for a 3bl company. >>> >>> The model you layout is exactly the problem. Contract dev from anywhere >>> who doesn't have vested interest in the project or any oversight can be the >>> single deciding factor for the project. No matter how good a PM is they >>> can't tell if the project is going down the right path when it comes to >>> development because they just don't understand. A Dev can tell a PM that >>> some thing is impossible. The PM won't know how to question that Dev to see >>> if it really is impossible or not. >>> >>> With my model a Dev Lead would be able to see problems before they come >>> up and direct the project. And if you have a Tech Lead who knows how to do >>> that. Somebody that doesn't code but directs instead then you don't really >>> need a PM. >>> >>> My argument is in IT and more specifically with PM rank and pay. I'm sure >>> a PM in building move doesn't command same salary as IT PM. >>> >>> They both work for you then you are the problem. You can't get out of >>> your shell and see how my method would work and be much more beneficial. In >>> your world anything a PM wants to do he has to ask the technical workers and >>> then act. The PM is just a middle man. Cut him out. This happens with >>> countless projects. PM schedules a meeting, gets everybody in a room to >>> discuss the matter at hand. When all is said and done the techi goes back to >>> his desk spends 30 minutes fixing a problem that they just spend talking >>> about for 1 hour. >>> >>> By the way what I'm suggesting isn't out of this world. It's being used >>> at many successful companies, for example Facebook. >>> >>> >>> --T >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Gary Slinger >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> **You have no idea what you're talking about. >>>> >>>> PM, QA and imp team are all at corp HQ. Let's say it's in Houston. >>>> >>>> Dev's are outsourced. Tata, whatever. Pick one. They're in Mumbai. >>>> >>>> You really think that team is going to work for a lead 'developer"? A >>>> dev is still a dev. I can see a limited exception for somewhere like >>>> Microsoft. >>>> >>>> Suggesting as a baseline that the PM work for the dev is moronic, even >>>> in the tiny little one dev one PM example you give. >>>> >>>> Scale it out - suppose the PM has 30 projects, and ten of them aren't >>>> IT? (Building move, HVAC replace, conference spool up, etc.). >>>> >>>> Suppose this isn't IT? One PM, and pickhowevermany carpenters, >>>> bricklayers, plumbers, etc. The PM works for the 'business' (the GC or >>>> owner's rep, e.g. this case). >>>> >>>> PMI isn't the be all and end all, but it's scaleable generic project >>>> management. >>>> >>>> I'm neither a PM nor a Dev, by the way. >>>> >>>> They both work for me. >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: *Tigran K <[email protected]> >>>> *Date: *Mon, 1 Aug 2011 16:51:26 -0700 >>>> *To: *NT System Admin Issues<[email protected]> >>>> *ReplyTo: *"NT System Admin Issues" < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> *Subject: *Re: PMI PMP Certification >>>> >>>> Easy >>>> 1 Lead Dev >>>> >>>> --T >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Gary Slinger >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> **I'm going to go and get some popcorn... >>>>> >>>>> How do you think that will play out when it's one PM, five concurrent >>>>> dev teams, a QA team and production implementation and operations folks? >>>>> >>>>> (And that's before I take 'PM' out of the 'just for IT' space). >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From: *Tigran K <[email protected]> >>>>> *Date: *Mon, 1 Aug 2011 16:44:24 -0700 >>>>> *To: *NT System Admin Issues<[email protected]> >>>>> *ReplyTo: *"NT System Admin Issues" < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: PMI PMP Certification >>>>> >>>>> I agree my sample size is not sufficient that's why I'm asking what >>>>> does a project manager do? >>>>> >>>>> Here's an example. Project is running late and the CIO comes in the >>>>> room and says get this thing done. He's not talking to the project manager >>>>> because no matter what the project manager does if he's not skilled in the >>>>> particular software he can't get it done. So really the guy getting the >>>>> job >>>>> done is the skilled worker. The one that has the technical knowledge. >>>>> >>>>> I'm suggesting the system is broken. In current business environment it >>>>> appears as the technical person is working for the project manager. I'm >>>>> saying it should be the other way around. The project manager should be >>>>> working for the technical guy. >>>>> >>>>> --Tigran >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Andrew S. Baker >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> True, but my real point was that just because you may appear to be >>>>>> surrounded by lots of ineffective *<insert job specification here>*, >>>>>> it doesn't mean that your sample size was sufficient to judge the >>>>>> validity >>>>>> of the entire discipline. >>>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, I've even managed to meet a few good lawyers. >>>>>> >>>>>> (For the record, I'm aware of more lousy or ineffective IT >>>>>> professionals than stellar ones...) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ** >>>>>> >>>>>> *ASB* *http://about.me/Andrew.S.Baker* *Harnessing the Advantages >>>>>> of Technology for the SMB market… >>>>>> >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 4:32 PM, John Cook <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Isn’t that kind of like saying “you need smarter users”? If only I >>>>>>> could pick and choose……..**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** ** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *John W. Cook***** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *System Administrator***** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Partnership For Strong Families* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *5950 NW 1st Place* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Gainesville, Fl 32607* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Office (352) 244-1610***** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Cell (352) 215-6944***** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *MCSE, MCP+I, MCTS, CompTIA A+, N+, VSP**4, VTSP4***** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** ** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 01, 2011 4:18 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: PMI PMP Certification**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** ** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You need to be working with better project and program managers. >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *ASB***** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *http://about.me/Andrew.S.Baker***** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Harnessing the Advantages of Technology for the SMB market…***** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Tigran K <[email protected]> wrote:* >>>>>>> *** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The only thing I see project managers do is schedule meetings, take >>>>>>> notes that nobody will see and get in the way of good technical >>>>>>> discussions. >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** ** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can somebody tell me why they need a cert program to use outlook? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Tigran**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2011, at 12:52 PM, Jacob <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Know the input and outputs for each process and the 30ish formulas. >>>>>>> The exam is not easy.**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have not applied for the test, you better get on it. If you >>>>>>> are lucky to get audited, I do not think you will be able to get it in >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> the 31st. You also have to document 4500 hours of project management >>>>>>> experience.**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.rmcproject.com/about/pmp-examination-changes.aspx**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, get Rita’s study guides. Worth it. >>>>>>> http://www.rmcproject.com/index.aspx**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jacob**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* John Hornbuckle [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 01, 2011 11:14 AM >>>>>>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues >>>>>>> *Subject:* OT: PMI PMP Certification**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was wondering if there were any certified PMPs out there that could >>>>>>> give me pointers on the exam.**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I had planned on taking it in around two months, but I just caught >>>>>>> wind of the fact PMI is changing it on August 31. So now I’m cramming >>>>>>> to see >>>>>>> if I can get it done before the change.**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I took two project management courses in grad school pretty recently, >>>>>>> and am currently reading a couple of PMP study guides.**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John Hornbuckle**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MIS Department**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Taylor County School District**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> www.taylor.k12.fl.us**** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> **** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** >>>>>>> >>>>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>>> >>>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>>> >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>>> or send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>>> >>> >>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>> >>> --- >>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>> or send an email to [email protected] >>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Gary K. Slinger >> Voice: 727-475-1947 // gChat [email protected] // Skype: garyslinger >> Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/garyslinger >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to [email protected] >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to [email protected] with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
