DING! DING! DING! Kurt wins the prize! It was a silly and (hopefully) preposterous example, but you got the point. If it isn't one of the major players, how good will the support be when you need it most? Of the major players, who of them are doing block/byte level de-dupe?
(and notice that I didn't say that I downsized the Linux guy - I knew how valuable he was, but the accountant doing the downsizing didn't ask me until it was too late...) :-) Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE Technology Coordinator Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA [email protected] www.eaglemds.com -----Original Message----- From: Kurt Buff [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 4:56 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: document sprawl 1) He might have meant ZFS - it contains block level dedupe for primary storage - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Deduplication 2) SANs are usually appliances, especially at the $10k/hour shops, so if your SAN is down, call your vendor. 3) If you have built your own SAN with Linux, and you didn't get the documentation done before you put it into production, you deserve your fate. Ditto for downsizing your linux guy in a shop where a mission-critical app is in the hands of one person. But I take your meaning - it just makes 3) that much more important - don't put anything into production for which you don't have support. Kurt On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 13:32, Raper, Jonathan - Eagle <[email protected]> wrote: > Jack - All due respect to you and to Linux, as I know it is a solid OS, but > how easy is it to find rock solid & trusted Linux support for shops that > have only windoze skills? And I don't mean simple administration support. I > mean, "My entire SAN just went down and it is costing me $10,000 an hour to > be down, and I have no Linux skills in house because the last guy that knew > Linux was just downsized last month by an accountant before we had a chance > to cross-train and all of his documentation was stored on the SAN. HELP!" > > > > We'd love to expand our internal skill sets with Linux knowledge, but up > until recently, we haven't had much time to breathe, let alone play around > with Linux. > > > > As for Zettabyte, it looks like they are only a backup solution. Is this the > right site? http://www.zettabytestorage.com/ Even if they do offer primary > storage, 8 TB is their upper end. I (and many others on this list) are > already beyond that; even fully de-duped, that would not last my > organization much longer. Regardless, it appears that the Zettabyte product > is geared toward backup. > > > > I'm talking about PRIMARY storage de-dupe, not backup de-dupe. > > > > Again, I'd like to know the names of "big time" players who are doing > primary storage de-duplication at the byte or block level, EMC, Commvault, > Hitachi Data Systems, etc. Is there anyone aside from NetApp? > > Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE > Technology Coordinator > Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA > [email protected] > www.eaglemds.com > > ________________________________ > > From: Kramer, Jack [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 3:32 PM > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: Re: document sprawl > > > > Linux filesystems - SDFS - and Zettabyte stand out as good examples of dedup > filesystems. There's also no reason a linux server can't act as a SMB host. > > > > ---- > Jack Kramer > Computer Systems Specialist > University Relations, Michigan State University > w: 517-884-1231 / c: 248-635-4955 > > > > From: "Raper, Jonathan - Eagle" <[email protected]> > Reply-To: NT System Admin Issues <[email protected]> > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 15:11:01 -0500 > To: NT System Admin Issues <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: document sprawl > > > > That's a great idea in theory, but aside from NetApp, are there any big time > players who are doing primary storage de-duplication at the byte or block > level? Generally when people talk about de-dupe, they are talking about > secondary storage and backup mechanisms. Sure there has been talk about > sub-file dedupe in primary storage for years, but who is really doing it > yet? > > > > Single Instance Store in Server 2003 and 2008 will help, but the files have > to be identical in size and content (name and date/time stamp can be > different). However, even then, it is (from my understanding) only really > available in Storage Server 2003/2008 which I believe is only available > bundled as an appliance from an OEM. > > > > Real (IMHO, anyway) deduplication happens at the byte or block level, > keeping only unique bits and pieces of differing files. If I have 100 copies > of a power point and only change one name on the last page, then I get 1 > copy of the power point, and only the blocks of data that comprise the name > changes on the remaining 99 copies. SIS won't do that; in that example, > you'd still have 100 copies of the file. De-dupe would do that, but like I > said, aside from NetApp, who is really doing sub-file dedupe on primary > storage right now? > > > > http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/datacenter/?p=2913&tag=content;leftCol > > > > http://searchstorage.techtarget.co.uk/tip/0,289483,sid181_gci1518522,00.html > > > > > > Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE > Technology Coordinator > Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA > [email protected] > www.eaglemds.com > > ________________________________ > > From: Kramer, Jack [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 12:55 PM > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: Re: document sprawl > > > > Why would the extra copies disappear on a dedup solution? The file markers > would exist in multiple places but the common blocks would only be written > to disk once, leaving just the individual blocks as extra usage. For a file > duplicated many times you'd use only (n-(n-1)+(small amount for > descriptors)) of space to host the duplicates. That sounds like it would > free quite a bit of disk for you while also allowing your users to continue > in their set ways. > > > > ---- > Jack Kramer > Computer Systems Specialist > University Relations, MichiganState University > w: 517-884-1231 / c: 248-635-4955 > > > > From: S Powell <[email protected]> > Reply-To: NT System Admin Issues <[email protected]> > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 12:24:12 -0500 > To: NT System Admin Issues <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: document sprawl > > > > that is a good thought. We've discussed that, but we don't have projects > that end like that , tend to more have ongoing things. > > > > i'd love to run a dedupe and and then pitch the extra copies, but then > people wouldn't know where to find anything because they wouldn't remember > where they put the originals. > > > > welcome to the machine. > > > > > > I 'm grateful for all the feedback on this topic and glad to know that I'm > not the only one facing some of these challenges. > Google.com Learn it. Live it. Love it. > > > On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 21:54, Ken Schaefer <[email protected]> wrote: > > A couple of things I could think of... > > Implement a product that does disk de-dupe? > > For project related work, incorporate document clean up into the project > shutdown phase - make the manager responsible for putting the final versions > of documents into whatever your master repository is > > Cheers > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Saturday, 4 December 2010 6:45 AM > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: RE: document sprawl > > They ignore the warnings. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. They > would rather blame their inability to get work done on lack of storage > rather than the fact they didn't clean up all of their old "stuff" to begin > with. This is an old battle. One I'm weary of fighting. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: VIPCS [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 4:34 PM > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: RE: document sprawl > > We think you can automatically send them warnings when they are close to > their quotas. > > You also have leverage to negotiate with them at that point - an extra 10% > increase in exchange for deleting old files, and you know what the quota was > before, and can tell whether they are fulfilling their end of the agreement. > > Sincerely, > > Jeffrey and Mary Jane Harris > VIPCS > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 5:26 PM > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: RE: document sprawl > > Doesn't work. They let them fill up and then gripe that they can't save > their files because the file system is full. > > -----Original Message----- > From: VIPCS [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 4:14 PM > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: RE: document sprawl > > A bit simplistic, but have you considered disk quotas for server file > storage? > > Sincerely, > > Jeffrey and Mary Jane Harris > VIPCS > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stephen Wimberly [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 12:17 PM > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: Re: document sprawl > > I have attempted to tackle this issue before, I like to call it "encourage > spring cleaning!" but my words always seem to fall on deaf ears. > > Lately every time I bring it up we end up buying more hard drives for the > server! I give up. Maybe I'm just too cheap? > > > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Jeff Brown <[email protected]> wrote: >> In regards to email, we were able to establish a retention policy that >> messages in the Inbox, Sent Items, and Deleted Items folders are all > deleted >> after 90 days. Exchange mailbox manager allowed to do that weekly. >> Don't manage other folders. Not perfect, but it helped. >> >> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Don Guyer <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> I'd be interested in a solution to this. Been fighting it for years >>> to no avail, other than running a "data inventory" program (such as >>> TreeSize) > and >>> doing a manual compare. >>> >>> >>> >>> Don't forget all of the email attachments saved along with the >>> original email. >>> >>> >>> >>> J >>> >>> >>> >>> Don Guyer >>> >>> Systems Engineer - Information Services >>> >>> Prudential, Fox & Roach/Trident Group >>> >>> 431 W. Lancaster Avenue >>> >>> Devon, PA 19333 >>> >>> Direct: (610) 993-3299 >>> >>> Fax: (610) 650-5306 >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> From: S Powell [mailto:[email protected]] >>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 11:17 AM >>> To: NT System Admin Issues >>> Subject: document sprawl >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello Everybody </Dr. Nick> >>> >>> >>> >>> I'd like to pick your brains about how you deal with document sprawl, >>> I was reading in another thread about how users would use their >>> "Recycle Bin" as their archive. <shudder> >>> >>> we have users that will keep tens of copies of the same document in >>> various locations around their "My Documents"; as well as in tens of >>> locations within our "shared" folders on the network ... >>> >>> >>> >>> User education only goes so far when it comes to "please don't do that" > as >>> they nod and then keep doing it. >>> >>> I think we've moved beyond being nice and we've found ourselves >>> >>> mired in needing a sledgehammer. I'd just like to wrap it in a bit >>> of velvet. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thoughts, Policies, procedures etc, would be helpful in this. >>> >>> >>> >>> TIA >>> >>> >>> >>> ./s >>> Google.com Learn it. Live it. Love it. >>> >>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ >>> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>> >>> --- >>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>> or send an email to [email protected] >>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >>> >>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ >>> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >>> >>> --- >>> To manage subscriptions click here: >>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >>> or send an email to [email protected] >>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ >> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to [email protected] >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > > > ________________________________ > > Any medical information contained in this electronic message is CONFIDENTIAL > and privileged. It is unlawful for unauthorized persons to view, copy, > disclose, or disseminate CONFIDENTIAL information. This electronic message > may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. It > is intended only for the use of the individual(s) and/or entity named as > recipients in the message. If you are not an intended recipient of this > message, please notify the sender immediately and delete this material from > your computer. Do not deliver, distribute or copy this message, and do not > disclose its contents or take any action in reliance on the information that > it contains. > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to [email protected] with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin Any medical information contained in this electronic message is CONFIDENTIAL and privileged. It is unlawful for unauthorized persons to view, copy, disclose, or disseminate CONFIDENTIAL information. This electronic message may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual(s) and/or entity named as recipients in the message. If you are not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender immediately and delete this material from your computer. Do not deliver, distribute or copy this message, and do not disclose its contents or take any action in reliance on the information that it contains. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to [email protected] with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
