> <snip> OL missed that chance. It got huge amounts of data from libraries–and > then gave > nothing back.<snip>
I'll add my prospective as an engineer on the project. The vast majority of library data in OL comes from libraries that the Internet Archive has partnerships with. IA has more than 30 scanning centers in libraries around the world, and not only provides book digitization, but also hosting of archived material online, forever. In addition to just MARC records for scanned books, some of our partner libraries have uploaded their catalogs for seeding OL. Much of the MARC data also comes from Library of Congress. In addition to scanning books and archiving the web for LOC, IA also purchased a subscription to add more LOC MARC records to OL. The Open Library E-book lending program also provides e-book lending of 200,000 books to patrons of libraries that have added data to OL. We also partner with state library associations in many states across the US, to provide lending services to readers in a large part of the country. Even if your local branch doesn't partner with OL for e-book lending, you may see a banner at the top of OL that says your state library is partnering with us, and our ebook lending platform is available to you. Last month, there were more than 60,000 ebook loans made through OL, and the number is growing. See http://openlibrary.org/libraries There are lots of other ways IA and OL work with libraries to help their patrons. You may not know about all of them. The Internet Archive does not do marketing or PR. We prefer that our partners make announcements themselves. We work tirelessly help libraries, authors, publishers, and readers, not to get headlines. The thing is, Tim knows all this, but he keeps posting the same rant year after year. I've been trying to decide if he is just being disrespectful, or if he is trolling. I've come to that it is both. Trolls kill communities. Do not feed the troll. -raj On Mar 6, 2013, at 2:21 PM, Lori Bowen Ayre <[email protected]> wrote: > Tim, > > Could you expand on this comment: > > <snip> OL missed that chance. It got huge amounts of data from libraries–and > then gave > nothing back. Sure, there were APIs, but it didn't play at all with standard > library protocols and formats. <snip> > > As I see it Internet Archive has a bunch of projects in play that rely very > much of people with energy to make them happen. As I understand it, their > ultimate goal is to archive everything in digital form whether it is web > pages or (now) TV news programming. Whether libraries can leverage what they > are gathering and archiving is really up to libraries, not to Internet > Archive. I don't have any history with them so I could be way off base but > this thread strikes me us strangely critical of IA and the Open Library > project as if they owe libraries something or have let libraries down. But > in reality, they have their mission and libraries have their mission and > there's lots of way the two can support each other but it is the > responsibility of libraries as much as anyone else to make it happen. > > So, back to my question, what standard protocols do you think IA or OL should > be supporting which they are not? > > Lori Ayre > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Tim Spalding <[email protected]> wrote: > FWIW, as someone at the first meeting, I thought "one webpage for > every book" a bad road to go down. Lots of other people can do that. > It's not that interesting. > > I was hoping that it could be a large open repository of book data, > for people and especially for libraries. For starters, I hoped it > would replace OCLC, the powerful, expensive library data monopoly > libraries suffer under. Replace it and improve on it. OL missed that > chance. It got huge amounts of data from libraries–and then gave > nothing back. Sure, there were APIs, but it didn't play at all with > standard library protocols and formats. So libraries gave a lot, got > nothing back and largely forgot about it. > > Many of you have heard of SkyRiver, a company that tried to take OCLC. > They ended up suing OCLC for antitrust violations, particularly for > using their unique power to force companies not to play with > competitors. Earlier this week SkyRiver folded, the rump getting > combined into another company, and dropped its suit. > > It would be nice to see OL take that up—to make bibliographic freedom > a key agenda. I know Aaron was inspired by that goal. But I don't know > where it went. > > Sorry for the harshness. > > Tim > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Tom Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I see some possible different nuances in goals: worldwide catalogue of all > >> books vs. catalogue for e-books hosted by IA, API access vs. web access, > >> only open data vs. more data regardless of openness. > > > > For my part, the goal is to retain the mission of "One webpage for every > > book." That's what I'm saddened to see fading away. > > > > - Tom > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Ben Companjen <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> > >> Not to disregard your other (good) points, but perhaps it's a good > >> idea to take a small step back to see "what is OL's goal again?" > >> This might help set priorities for the more technical issues. > >> > >> I don't think there is a need to go in a completely different > >> direction, but I do believe different people may be here for different > >> reasons. For example, I see some possible different nuances in goals: > >> worldwide catalogue of all books vs. catalogue for e-books hosted by > >> IA, API access vs. web access, only open data vs. more data regardless > >> of openness. > >> > >> Using the wiki pages on OpenLibrary.org makes sense (as long as noone > >> at IA thinks it enough and pulls the plug, which is unlikely), > >> together with this and other OL mailinglists. > >> > >> Ben > >> > >> On 6 March 2013 10:30, John Rigdon <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > I have spent some time perusing the bios of the various people working > >> > with Internet Archive and viewing some presentations done by George and > >> > others. I think a working group - call it a comittee if you must - as > >> > suggested earlier is needed to begin setting some objectives and > >> > responding to interested users. > >> > > >> > As I see it now we need to address three areas: > >> > > >> > 1. What technical issues need to be addressed for OL. > >> > 2. How can we best organize for cleaning and extending the OL data > >> > 3. Assigning and encouraging volunteers to address projects > >> > > >> > What do we need to do to get a wiki or some other platform set up? I > >> > can > >> > do so on one of my domains, but if we can get the setup or access here > >> > on > >> > OL or Internet Archive I think it will be best. I think a first step > >> > needs to be a working of the existing help pages / user documentation to > >> > make it more usable / accessible for non-techies. While I have > >> > extensive > >> > experience in the web and programming, I have found it quite tedious to > >> > navigate and sort through what is currently there. > >> > > >> > John Rigdon > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Ol-tech mailing list > >> > [email protected] > >> > http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech > >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to > >> > [email protected] > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ol-tech mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to > >> [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -Tom Johnson > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ol-tech mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to > > [email protected] > > > > > > -- > Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding > _______________________________________________ > Ol-tech mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Ol-tech mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to > [email protected]
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