[Winona Online Democracy]
At 01:07 PM 3/25/01 +0000, Bill Heitman wrote:
>[Winona Online Democracy]
>
>After reading the many replies to the question of whether the United Way was
>right to exclude the Boy Scouts from funding. I am amazed that some have
>gone so far as to call the boy scouts immoral for having high moral
>standards for their scouts and leaders.
>Maybe some of these people should talk to their ministers and ask what the
>churches stance is on homosexuality. The last time I checked it was
>considered a sin in every faith that I know of. To me that would make it an
>immoral lifestyle. As for me I personally don't care what they do in the
I hesitate to get into an argument such as this, but I wanted to point out
that many faiths and cultures have not regarded homosexuality as a sinful
orientation, or as wrong, or immoral. Not only have some Native American
faiths not considered homosexuals unnatural, but instead as special;
"double-gendered people," if I remember correctly. Other cultures, mostly
pre- or non-Christian from what I know, have also not condemned
homosexuality as a sinful "lifestyle," but as an accepted part of their
society.
I think homosexuality has been set aside for condemnation largely because
of our rigid gender views. (e.g. it has historically been men who have
been in charge of society, making the rules, leading the church, etc. Male
homosexuality is intimidating because it "feminizes" the men involved,
according to their view. Female homosexuality is intimidating because it
suggests to them that men aren't always needed or don't always have to be
in control.) Thus, cultures without such views often don't interpret the
"rightness" or "wrongness" of homosexuality the same as we.
Also, your argument is based on the belief that with religion comes
morality and without religion, there can be no morality. It all comes down
to what your definition of morality is. I know very moral atheists and
agnostics.
My point is that your email, Bill, is based on absolutism: "This is true.
It has always been this way. End of discussion." Many, many people,
including Christians, reject such thinking. I certainly hope I don't seem
as if I'm trying to tell you you're "wrong" -- that's just my point: A lot
of us, while we certainly have our own beliefs and opinions, strongly feel
that when it comes right down to it the fundamental questions of religion
are unknowable -- that's where faith comes in. So, we look to more
objective sources. For instance, every single study I've seen done by a
third party (not a fundamentalist Christian organization, not a gay rights
group) has shown that gay men are no more likely to molest children than
straight men. And, they've shown that gay parents (or other gay adults who
work with children, i.e. gay scoutmasters) do not inspire children to
"become gay." Aren't those two of the main arguments that the Boy Scouts
have against "allowing" gays to be scouts or scoutmasters? If the argument
is that the Scouts, as an organization, bans gays because it wants its boys
to grow up "morally straight" according to the Bible, then the Scouts
should be classified as a religious organization.
Just one more point, then I'll leave everyone alone. Middle school and
teenage years are pretty nasty for everyone; adolescence is a tough
time. I think everyone can agree with that. But, imagine if, on top of
all the other trails and tribulations of adolescence, you're a young boy
(or girl, but since we're talking scouts here...) and you know you're
"different," but can't quite put your finger on why. It haunts you until
you slowly become aware that you're gay. Then, it terrifies you. It
becomes a secret you don't understand and are afraid to tell anyone for
fear they won't love you anymore. That's what it pretty much comes down
to. And, imagine that an organization you grew up in and love, the Boy
Scouts, have stepped up and said that *all* homosexuals are immoral and
deviant and shall not be accepted into the organization. How would you
feel? How's your self-esteem at this point? At this point, you feel there
is no one to turn to, even if you become depressed or suicidal, because
everyone would regard you as a sinner, as deviant, as unnatural. Did you
know that the U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services under George the Elder
did a study and found that gay youth are 2-3 times more likely to attempt
suicide than their straight peers and that 30% of all youth who kill
themselves are gay, lesbian or bisexual? Are you beginning to see why? I am.
Sorry for the length. Obviously, this is something I feel passionate
about. Sorry also if it's a little rambling. I've got a bad cold and I'm
not thinking real straight. So to speak.
Lori Baumgardt
Winona
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