On 9/6/2011 9:48 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
Clearly you didn't read the whole sentence
in context. You certainly cannot delegate
away someone'sPPMC voting rights on new committers,
but that wouldn'tbe something I'd call a
management/oversightaspect of the forums.
Two different animals.
Sigh. Yeah, that's most of what I was trying to say, but I used a lot
more words.
IP that is distributed in Apache products must come (mostly) from
committers). Wikis, forums, and ancillary stuff could come from
non-committers, as long as we have reasonable license expectations.
- Shane, needing more sleep and coffee
________________________________
From: Rob Weir<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Joe Schaefer<[email protected]> wrote:
Where did you get that from in what I wrote?
Your use of the term "ALL" (in bold characters)
-Rob
________________________________
From: Rob Weir<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Joe Schaefer<[email protected]> wrote:
It's called delegation Rob, and it's done all the
time within the ASF. The PPMC can delegate ALL
management/oversight aspects to whomever is on
the PPMC that is also involved with the forums.
So long as 1 person on the PPMC is watching over
the activity, and anything noteworthy gets passed
along to the board via PPMC reports, it's a perfectly
humane way of conducting yourselves.
So we can delegate selection of approval of committers to a single
PPMC member? Really?
-Rob
________________________________
From: Rob Weir<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Joe Schaefer<[email protected]> wrote:
Up until a few days ago I thought we had one.
Move the forums over to the ASF, give the PPMC
and ASF members the full ability (upon request)
to oversee allcommunications within the forums,
and life goeson. I see no need for the Volunteers
to join the PPMC or anything like that, just keep
doing whatever you're doing and keep the PPMC abreast
of anything report-worthy when they need to report
to the board. If the Volunteers want to incorporate
some Apache-style voting processes into their ops,
go for it!
And if I wanted to create a group called the "Calc developer
volunteers", could we join the project, with the understanding the
rest of the project would leave us alone? We would vote in our own
committers, etc,. independently of the normal PMC process. We would
conduct our business on restricted-access mailing lists, not visible
to the public. But on request we'd allow PMC members to join these
lists.
Ignore for a second the IP implications. That is really a red
herring. The point is meritocracy, decision making and PMC oversight.
Think of similar analogies with non-release aspects of the project,
like web site design, documentation, wikis, etc.
Where else does Apache have a meritocracy embedded in a project that
does not commune with the PMC? In an ideal world, where everything
just worked, and there were never any disagreements or disputes, then
this might work. But in that world we wouldn't need a PMC or an ASF
Board either. In any case, we don't live in such a world.
It is bizarre, but I hear people advocating for community
fragmentation in the name of community unity. Having two parallel
meritocracies within the same project is fragmentation. I don't see
how we can call it anything else.
-Rob
________________________________
From: Rory O'Farrell<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 05:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
Joe Schaefer<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
So to answer your questions, yes it certainly could be done
within the Apache structure. No it probably cannot be done
to host stuff here on behalf of some third party.
Thanks, that is helpful in clarifying options.
So to be hosted on Apache one would need to find some mechanism whereby a forum
would fit into Apache; by your earlier post you do not think there is such a
mechanism. Might Apache be prepared to modify (by extension) their structures to
accomodate these? This becomes a problem for the legal draughtsmen, of course. The
old rule of £minimal change" ought apply.
I'm not asking for a change, just exploring the possibility of one.
--
Rory O'Farrell<[email protected]>
