>________________________________
>From: Ross Gardler <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]; Joe Schaefer <[email protected]>
>Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:05 AM
>Subject: Re: Umbrella projects
>
>On 12 September 2011 13:41, Joe Schaefer <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Well binaries do not require votes, they
>> are considered a "courtesy service" of the
>> project.
>
>For clarity:
>
>An *official* release requires a vote. A binary snapshot release (for
>example) does not.
>
>Usually an official release (which is a source release) is accompanied
>by a binary release that is a courtesy as Joe says.
>
>I think what Joe means here (apologies if I am misrepresenting you
>Joe) is that if, for example, Apache OO.o 3.4 were released today then
>a native language *binary* release based on that code could be made
>tomorrow without a vote.


Correct, see 
http://www.apache.org/dev/release.htmll#what-must-every-release-contain

All "released" binaries must be buildable from voted-upon source packages.



>
>The question then is how much control over native language versions
>does the PPMC want and at what point is the native language version no
>longer considered to be a version of Apache OO.o but instead it is a
>downstream modification of Apache OO.o.
>
>It's for the PPMC to decide that.
>
>> In any case there is sufficient
>> precedent which disagrees with Ross's opinion
>> that all PPMC votes must take place here that
>> his position could be reasonably contested
>> should a valid need arise.
>
>I think my position has been morphed by this thread. My comments are
>not *only* about native language sub-groups, I merely used a native
>language group as the example.
>
>I am *not* saying that native language releases are a problem.
>
>I am *not* saying that native language projects are *automatically*
>sub-projects that might lead to OO.o being an umbrella of the kind the
>ASF does not like.
>
>What I *am* saying is that we need to be aware of how much autonomy
>sub-lists have. Those sub-lists may, or may not be, about native
>language versions. My mail is, as Simon says an attempt to sound "a
>wake-up call that we need to put a lot more thought into how the
>project will approach [semi-auomonous groups]"
>
>[Finally, for the record, I disagree that project decisions (requiring
>a vote) can be taken anywhere but here.]


Traditionally it depends on the scope of the decision.  Subprojects at
the ASF are free to hold binding votes on their sublists, presuming
the decision only affects that subproject.



>
>Ross
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>>From: Simon Phipps <[email protected]>
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 8:31 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Umbrella projects
>>>
>>>[Recombining the thread]
>>>
>>>On 12 Sep 2011, at 12:43, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12 September 2011 12:34, Simon Phipps <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12 Sep 2011, at 10:55, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to manage this carefully. A Japanes language list to ensure
>>>>>> non-English speaking people are able to participate in the project is
>>>>>> fine. A Japanese language list for creating a different version of OOo
>>>>>> for the Japanese market is not fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reality is likely to be somewhere in-between. For example, the PT-BR 
>>>>> localisation of OOo was the subject of extensive discussion in Portuguese 
>>>>> about exactly how to translate various aspects of the UI, none of which 
>>>>> would be of great relevance to English-speakers but which was still 
>>>>> development discussion. The same would be likely to apply to every locale.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me clarify "different version" I meant significantly different,
>>>> not just a translation.
>>>
>>>You say "just a translation" but the debate on the PT-BR version led to two 
>>>competing releases for a time, with an impact on the community there which 
>>>lingers to this day. Localisation of a consumer application is never "just a 
>>>translation" as might happen to the strings in a server project; substantial 
>>>end-user decisions are debated, negotiated and agreed by thoughtful 
>>>developers.
>>>
>>>/The/ key reason for the success of OpenOffice.org is that there exists a 
>>>large, global community of groups of localisers who each act in autonomy or 
>>>semi-autonomy to create the release for each locale. Your message is a 
>>>wake-up call that we need to put a lot more thought into how the project 
>>>will approach them, especially if they will need to be separate projects in 
>>>order to retain their locale-specific autonomy.
>>>
>>>On 12 Sep 2011, at 12:44, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12 September 2011 11:50, Ian Lynch <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> If there is to be a NL build of the AOO product to be
>>>>> released, presumably that build will take place at Apache? Or could it 
>>>>> take
>>>>> place elsewhere but only be formally released by Apache?
>>>>
>>>> It depends on what you mean by "takes place". Anyone can build
>>>> anything they want, wherever they want. However a formal release of an
>>>> Apache project must receive 3 binding +1's. The vote to get those
>>>> votes *must* be carried out here on the official dev list (this one).
>>>
>>>So the release of (for example:) a new PT-BR binary needs three binding +1s 
>>>on this (English-speaking) list?
>>>
>>>S.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>Programme Leader (Open Development)
>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
>
>

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