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I'm very new to this list and a little surprised
that it has broadened beyond an open graphics card, but it makes
sense. I'm going to spout anyway.
Richard Stallman was right to launch the Free
BIOS project (www.fsf.org/campaigns/free-bios.html). It is
another piece needed to assure that every working part of an Open Computer will
be transparent, auditable, and well-behaved. The graphics card needs to be open
as well, and there will inevitably be other devices that will have the same
issues. DRM is certainly the antithesis of the open concept, and RMS is right to
oppose it. Already there are serious restrictions on the functionality of
consumer electronics as a result, and they are getting more restrictive.
Personally I am appalled at the number of devices
that now phone home: certainly that includes TIVO, MS software including office,
audio disks, DVDs and so on. All require secret software. Licensing agreements
pop up too frequently, and I doubt that most people have time to read them, let
alone fully understand them.
I would like to see some additional software
protections: any installs should be visible and fully explained. No exceptions.
There should be NO devices that phone home without authorization. Are we not
surveilled enough already ? In short, this is a machine designed for consumer
protection, not exploitation.
I too favor a completely open machine. High-def
DVD's should be fully functional when they become available.
If all this requires a completely different class
of content, then so be it. After all, if you had to give up all commercial
broadcasting, how much would you really lose ? Do you consider Lou Dobbs "news"
informative when he rages against illegal people every night ? ...Lou broadcasts
relatively good stuff. As Danny Schecter titled his book "the more you watch,
the less you know". The deal we made seemed to be if we are entertained or
informed, we will be the target of advertising. That deal does not look so good
anymore. The networks decided to save money by doing "reality" shows which are
done with performers who are not paid, no writers, no musicians, and pretty much
no talent. They saved money doing this, but there has been, in my opinion, a
cultural price. The advertisers now bend the news, the news is dumbed down,
shock jocks spout propaganda. It's a bad deal. I feel that advertising is spam.
My favorite Linux/GNU distribution right now is
Debian because it avoids proprietary hooks and also it works pretty well. It is
not particularly nice to configure at least for the first time. So to make a
practical open machine, the software should be an integral part and it should be
fully configured. Ready to run out of the box. Maybe the developer
edition could include all of the source code along with a large hard
drive as an option. Since Linux is not moving on to the next incarnation of
the GPL, I wonder if it will need to be replaced. How is the Hurd ?
For me, a really open machine can be a
winner...and it doesn't have to come from a non-profit. It just
has to be absolutely transparent. So why not set up a simple structure be it a
partnership or a corporation that can buy and sell and advertise just like
everyone else...and make a profit for itself. Maybe a public offering would
bring an initial amount of development revenue. Ben and Jerry's did it in
Vermont yet, and they prospered for a long time. You don't need no standard,
just open, transparent stuff.
I think RMS would be the best person to take this
kind of initiative since he has demonstrated incorruptibility. Perhaps people on
this list will want to subscribe to a public offering. A good lawyer would
need to be involved, but Richard has deep experience with the legal issues.
If he is too busy, I'm sure there are people to keep the idea alive.
There could be a broad market and the potential for
significant profit. A lot of people may want to reject Windows and
other consumer electronics as imposing on their rights so that they can have
electronics they will trust.
R L Vogel
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Open-graphics]
OpenGraphics (OpenHardware?) Foundation
On 7/9/06, Patrick
McNamara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Timothy
Miller wrote:
> On 7/8/06, B Salmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> Getting the foundation on the way sounds real good. and
using the OGF
>> name
>> may not matter too much as we
would be using the acronym, which would
>> not
>> really
associate it with graphics. As long as the charter allows for
>>
other
>> hardware options this may not be a problem.
I would
still lean towards Open Hardware Foundation (OHF) as the more
generic
option since all the business fillings will need to use
the
non-abbreviated version. In the end, I would love to see
the foundation
oversee the design and manufacture of a completely open
computer
system. The graphics card is just a really good
starting point.
>>
>> It seems from earlier conversations
that obtaining tax free status is
>> very
>> difficult in
the States, and because of the penalties incourred if
>> this
is
>> lost, any patents or copyrights which it owns could be at
risk.
>>
While it is technically possible that a court could
order the sale of
such items due to bankruptcy, the loss of tax exempt
status would have
no bearing on any patents or copyrights held by the
foundation other
than as a possible source of revenue to help settle
financial penalties.
>> Perhaps
>> 1. Use another
foundation/organization to hold and protect the
>> Ownership
of
>> copyrights/patents if we decide to do this.
>
>
For instance, Traversal. If the OGF in some way paid for it, then
the
> contract would require Traversal to grant free license to GPL
users,
> OGF, and other important groups.
>
My answer to this
is in reference to generic "business", not Traversal.
Please take no
offense Tim, as you have pointed it out yourself.
Traversal is a
business and it's job is to make money and sustain
itself. A
business may start out with the most altruistic intents.
But, management
changes, hard times come and go, circumstances change.
Whether you agree
with it or not, look at the storm surrounding Google.
In a prior thread
many moons ago, there was discussion about the
licensing surrounding the
RTL code. The general consensus was that it
would be made
available under an open license at some point in the
future and several
ideas about how to ensure that this happens were put
forth. Like it or not, a business really cannot enter into a
legally
binding agreement with "the community". They can make
a pledge to "do
the right thing" but all it is is a pledge. To
make it legally binding
a business must enter into an agreement with
another legal entity. In
this case it would be the foundation,
whose purpose is to represent the
community in the business
realm.
>> 2. Use the US but accept we will have to give tax. (this
may not be a
>> very
>> bad idea - it will be central and
free from exchange rate movements,
>> and at
>> least we
all comprehend what the tax situation is)
>
> Given that
Traversal is a US company, it might just make things
>
easier. Also, where are most OGP members from? If
they're more from
> europe, maybe we could do it from an EU
state.
I have pondered this a good bit. First, let me say,
there are two
different type of non-profit corporation under US federal
and state
law. One is really a subset of the
other. The basic non-profit is
exempt from most corporate
taxes, however donations a not tax deductible
by the
giver. The second is what most people think of when they think
non-profit (ie charities) and that is a non-profit corporation under
IRS
501(c)(3). In this case, donations are tax
deductible.
The tax deductible status of of donation is a big
bonus. It certainly
provides a greater incentive for
individuals to donate. It also opens
up opportunities to
receive grants and such from other organizations, up
to and including the
government. It does put further limits on the
company
though.
Should we decide to form the foundation and decide to host it
outside
the US, the foundation would still have to jump through all the
same
hoops in the US. It would need to be licensed for
business in the US as
well as be registered with the IRS,
etc. I assume the reverse is also
true if the foundation is
formed as a US company. If someone wanted to
do some research
of what a US non profit corporation would need to do to
be
licensed/registered in the EU as a corporation and as a non profit,
that
would be very useful.
>
>> 3. find an organization which
will do this paper work for us to make
>> sure we
>> dont
have tax - FSF help here?
>
> Could be. I tried
contacting them once, but got no response. Perhaps
>
someone else will have luck.
>
I personally have reservations about
involving the FSF too deeply in
anything we do. Whether or not
you agree with their current stance
surrounding the GPL, it is certainly
polarizing and splitting the
community. Richard Stallman may
not be considered the most tactful or
compromising individual in some
circles. For better or worse, the FSF
has a lot of history and
perceptions attached to it. I have considered
getting in
touch with the Mozilla Foundation though, as there position
in some ways
mirrors what we are trying to do. I have also found some
legal
resources that will assist with both the incorporation and IRS
paperwork,
for example: http://www.501c3.org/index.html. I
also have a
few contacts in the business legal community here that I can
bounce
things off of.
>> 4. Use another country. Perferrably
one which uses the US$ (harder to
>> keep
>> together and
not central)
>
> Yeah, exchange rates can be a
problem. But you might be able to
> manage most of the
money in USD even if you're in Europe or Asia. I
> bet many
Swiss banks handle lots of different currencies.
We are going to have
exchange rate problems, regardless of how we
approach
this. This is something that will need to be studied a
bit
more to determine the most effective and least painful
(unfortunately
rarely the same) ways of handling the problem.
Something everyone needs to consider, especially those who may
become
involved in forming and running a possible
foundation. This is not a
minor undertaking. This
is the formation of a corporate entity, no
different than any other
company, save perhaps the size. It moves
participation in the
Open Graphics project from an fun "hobby" to
helping run a
business. They are legal requirements for execution of
duties, for filing formal paperwork with (in the US) Secretaries
of
State as well as the IRS. Formal books must be kept and
accounting
principles adhered too. Decision on corporate
governance, structure,
shareholders, and bylaws must be
made. Yearly reports created and
distributed, board and
shareholders meetings planned, scheduled and
held, in short, all the
things necessary to run a major corporation.
Due to our size, many things
will be simpler than for say Intel or the
like, but they are still
required.
Now, after everyone ponders just home much work this will
all be and how
little fun it will be, consider what we get in
return. This helps make
the project more
"real". Not just real from the point of view of those
working
on it (we know it is), but real from those looking in from
the
outside. One of the perceived problems, from the business
point of
view, with open source is the lack of structure and lack of an
entity to
work with. One of the perceived problems with
business, from a
community point of view, is the focus on the business
bottom line,
especially at the expense of the community's
altruism. This foundation
would help address those problems
and bridge the two disparate worlds.
From the point of view of those who
may provide funding, especially
folks like Universities, it gives them a
much better feeling and
understanding about where their funding will be
going and how it would
be used.
I'll get off the soap box
now. :)
Patrick
M
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Well stated. I particularly
like the Open Standards Computer part. Isn't the Spark CPU's an open standars
arch? Just a thought :) Perhaps a pipe dream, but just imagine the
possibilities! Now an Open Standards Computer would give me personally
something to work very hard at obtaining! Believe me im not making light of
the tremendous amount of work that such an undertaking would require. Still
what a dream come true if it did happen. In a totally alternate non-reality,
how about reverse engineering the Alpha and reviving it from the dead. You
want to talk about a fanatical following... /shrug.
Have a good
day,
Gary
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