On 11/25/06, Lourens Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I would call that "Fully documented hardware".

That sounds like it would include hardware for which the documentation
was only available under NDA. We want documentation to exist, and to be
available, copyable, and usable by anyone on a royalty-free basis.
That's an open standard.

We can quibble about what it means to be a "standard".  Just because
something is published royalty-free doesn't mean it's widely accepted
for interoperability or whatever.

> With open hardware, lots of things are different.  If someone uses a
> piece of open hardware in a closed way, it's still good for us,
> because (a) they had to pay for it, and (b) they're dependent on us.
> The only time their actions are restricted is if they try to
> DUPLICATE the hardware.  Then the IP license comes into effect.
> Otherwise, the hardware was duplicated by someone authorized to do
> so, and now it's a physical good that can be bought and sold at will.

But note that you're speaking (I assume) for Traversal Technology, LLC
here regarding the current situation with OGD1 and OGA1. This hardware,
if used under the terms of the TT proprietary licence rather than an
open one, would be proprietary, and as such outside the scope of this
discussion.

No.  What I'm talking about is not necessarily in the best interests
of Traversal's profit margin.  I'm talking about the open IP that
defines the logic of the hardware and how it can be used under open
source terms.

If someone orders 1000 TRV10 chips, and they pay us for them, we don't
care what they do with those chips.  The physical silicon is their
property now.  If you bought an OGC1 from me, you wouldn't want me
telling you what you could and could not do with it, right?

The intellectual property isn't theirs to duplicate, however.  One can
duplicate the silicon under the terms of the GPL, but that means they
must comply with the terms of the license for that.

The point is that use of the silicon that was made and sold legally is
different from reproduction of that silicon.

The only thing we can do to protect ourselves from people duplicating
the logic at the transistor level is to be sneaky and slip in some
logic that is not under a libre license, which others are therefore
not authorized to duplicate.  We're still batting around the idea of
doing an open design that is not, at first, also libre.  So you can
download the Verilog code, but others are not authorized to turn it
into silicon, resell it, etc.  We (Traversal) would never license
anything like this in perpetuity; we (OGP) would do it only as a means
to protect our interests as a nacent project.

Oh yeah, so let's work on definitions some more:

"open source hardware" -- You can download (but not necessarily
redistribute) the HDL code, but you may or may not be allowed to
manufacture silicon from it.

"libre hardware" -- Not only can (or must) you download and
redistribute the HDL code, but you can also make silicon from it all
you like.

Traversal may take advantage of this distinction in order to
temporarily have a corner on the market for the physical silicon.  Few
will complain about restrictions on their rights to manufacture
silicon from our IP, given that they couldn't afford to do it if they
wanted to.  In the long term, we'll make the HDL code libre mostly so
that when we want to wash our hands of it, we can do it with a clean
conscience.
_______________________________________________
Open-graphics mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.duskglow.com/mailman/listinfo/open-graphics
List service provided by Duskglow Consulting, LLC (www.duskglow.com)

Reply via email to