Btw, if anyone in .eu wants a ticket to ehsm.eu I bought one because I really wanted to go and then figured out flights cost too much.
I'll give you the ticket if you go listen to the YASEP talk ;) On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 12:24:57AM -0600, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > I think you can learn a lot from > https://github.com/Wolfgang-Spraul/fpgatools > > I am sort of a fan of http://www.xess.com/prods/prod048.php ... > if you have the xilinx tools, and can compile any sort of > processor vhdl to a bitstream, then I'll send you a board. > (I have 4 right now) > > I bought them in the hopes of getting the YASEP vhdl running > on them, but that will take some devel work I haven't had time > for yet. I think the pAVR would be pretty cool as well. > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 09:26:10PM +0100, Lars Poetter wrote: > > A big thank you to all helpful comments. > > > > I have had a course on FPGAs. I have read 3 books about it. I talked to > > colleges that actually did FPGA programming. I reviewed a VHDL Coding > > convention(I do not know if that really helped much). I downloaded and > > installed the Xlinx Software for Linux. > > > > Buts that about it. I never wrote any VHDL or Verilog. > > > > The chance to work on FPGAs at work did not come. For small private > > projects ?Controllers are cheaper and _I_ can do these projects much > > faster without FPGA. For bigger Projects FPGAs would be an option, but I > > don't trust them due to my limited experience. > > > > Just buying a Dev-board and figuring it all out doesn't work for me. I > > don't have that much time anymore. Besides that was the point about Arduino. > > > > Arduino is not about the Hardware. There are a lot of Dev-boards > > available for all the processors out there, they are better, cheaper, > > have more features, more ram, more pins, less pins, whatever you like. > > > > But they are not a solution for starters ! > > > > If you are a company and give a Dev-board to the new employee, you give > > him the tools, some time and peers to ask some questions and he will > > learn whatever processor you gave him - no problem. > > > > If I would work on a project which needs to use one special FPGA I would > > learn how that thing works and after a hard starting phase I would be > > getting better and better with FPGAs. But up until now that project > > never came around. > > > > It's probably that I'm too old, have too less time or too much money, or > > that I'm not motivated enough. But just getting some board and start > > playing will not happen. It will probably not work and I have enough > > stuff that collects dust. > > > > I don't need more books as I think I know enough to evaluate at the > > start of the project if an FPGA can be a solution in this specific > > project or not. If I think yes I ask an expert to verify. > > > > I don't need just some Board that does or does not something. I will > > happy buy a board that > > - commes with the complete software, that runs on Linux, needed to > > program the FPGA, > > - that includes a documentation with simple steps of how to use the > > software(That was the problem with the Xilinx Software. It installed a > > set of tools that all seamed to have something to do with the steps > > needed. But where should one start ?), > > - an example that implements something at least a little bit useful(A > > blinking LED that can be switched on or of with a button is fine, or > > play something on SPDIF just a frequency sweep would be fine) > > - the documentation should explain every step from source code to > > running example, > > - has a community around it with people that have the same board an > > that I can ask for help, > > - is not the private proprietary property of one company alone. > > > > But that seems to much to ask. Check with Arduino, Arduino fulfills all > > these points. And I must say that I don't even like Arduino. For > > ?Controllers I go with just some Dev-board (because I know which are the > > important features to look for), I don't need a idiot proof IDE (because > > I know the tools and don't want to get limited in what features I can > > use), i don't need their libraries(They sacrifice performance, > > flexibility and power consumption just to make them easier to use), but > > I would recommend Arduino to people that want to get into embedded > > programming. > > > > So right now, until the Project that needs an FPGA comes around, or I > > find an Arduino like FPGA board as described, I will not enter the world > > of VHDL or Verilog as the entry barriers are just too high for a hobby. > > It is not something that you can do on a weekend. > > > > Lars > > > > Am 20.12.2012 19:40, schrieb Attila Kinali: > > > On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:05:14 +0100 > > > Lars Poetter <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>> I would like to ask you to stop pushing ideas around and start doing > > >>> something. Like writing some letters, meeting people and getting a big > > >>> investor. Or doing some verilog coding. There are also drivers that > > >>> need to be written... etc. Timothy will for sure be happy to give you > > >>> a list of things that need to be done. > > >> > > >> I don't know big Investors, so I have no one to write letters to and I > > >> have never ever coded verilog. So that leaves me with nothing to do to > > >> help. > > > > > > Not knowing something doesn't mean you cannot aquire the skills. > > > > > >> I would like to start programming FPGAs. But I don't know where to > > >> start. > > > > > > Pick up a good book, read it. Decide what small project you'd like > > > to do and start coding :-) > > > > > > I currently would recomend to go for "Digital Design - An Embedded > > > Systems Approach" by Peter Ashenden. There is both a Verilog and > > > a VHDL version of that book. For starting, i would recomend VHDL > > > over Verilog. Although VHDL is a lot more verbose than Verilog, > > > it has a lot clearer structure and prevents you from a lot of > > > typos and small mistakes that are very hard to spot in Verilog. > > > Learning Verilog later is like learning Java when you know C++. > > > The base concepts are the same, there is some difference in syntax > > > and a few in semantics, but nothing major. > > > > > > When you go the VHDL road you should definitly get "The Designers Guide > > > to VHDL" also by Ashenden, no matter what other book you buy. > > > It's The Book for VHDL. It contains all the gorry details in a simple > > > and easy to understand language. Including a lot of the traps with lots > > > of examples how to actually design circuits. (I have yet to find > > > a book of similar quality for Verilog) > > > > > > You can find quite a few examples of code on the opencores website[3], > > > for both Verilog and VHDL. But the quality of those varies a lot. > > > > > > For the impatient, you can find a very simplified overview of different > > > electronic circuits and their description in VHDL in [4]. This can > > > serve as an reference guide and can you get started, but is not > > > enough to learn VLSI design. > > > > > > > > >> I do embedded C Programming and for those that want to start > > >> embedded C Programming it is now easy, because they can start with an > > >> Arduino. If there is an FPGA-Arduino the please give me an pointer. If > > >> there isn't, then creating one would probably be a big step towards your > > >> target of more skilled People. > > > > > > There are several of them. A quite comprehensive list can be found > > > at [1]. I quite like the DE0-Nano from terasic[2]. But there are others > > > that are cheaper than that one, and probably better fit your needs. > > > You don't have to check the size of the FPGA for any of those boards, > > > as it is very unlikely that you will run out of logic blocks with > > > your first couple of projects. But you should ensure it comes with > > > "batteries included". Ie contain power supply, cables and stuff around it. > > > Makes life a lot easier. > > > > > > Attila Kinali > > > > > > > > > [1] http://tristesse.org/FPGA/CheapFPGADevelopmentBoards > > > [2] http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?No=593 > > > [3] http://opencores.org/projects > > > [4] http://www.actel.com/documents/hdlcode_ug.pdf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Open-graphics mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.duskglow.com/mailman/listinfo/open-graphics > > List service provided by Duskglow Consulting, LLC (www.duskglow.com) > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Troy Benjegerdes 'da hozer' [email protected] > > Somone asked my why I work on this free (http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/) > software & hardware (http://q3u.be) stuff and not get a real job. > Charles Shultz had the best answer: > > "Why do musicians compose symphonies and poets write poems? They do it > because life wouldn't have any meaning for them if they didn't. That's why > I draw cartoons. It's my life." -- Charles Shultz > _______________________________________________ > Open-graphics mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.duskglow.com/mailman/listinfo/open-graphics > List service provided by Duskglow Consulting, LLC (www.duskglow.com) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Troy Benjegerdes 'da hozer' [email protected] Somone asked my why I work on this free (http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/) software & hardware (http://q3u.be) stuff and not get a real job. Charles Shultz had the best answer: "Why do musicians compose symphonies and poets write poems? They do it because life wouldn't have any meaning for them if they didn't. That's why I draw cartoons. It's my life." -- Charles Shultz _______________________________________________ Open-graphics mailing list [email protected] http://lists.duskglow.com/mailman/listinfo/open-graphics List service provided by Duskglow Consulting, LLC (www.duskglow.com)
