Btw, if anyone in .eu wants a ticket to ehsm.eu I bought one
because I really wanted to go and then figured out flights
cost too much.

I'll give you the ticket if you go listen to the YASEP talk ;)


On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 12:24:57AM -0600, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> I think you can learn a lot from
> https://github.com/Wolfgang-Spraul/fpgatools
> 
> I am sort of a fan of http://www.xess.com/prods/prod048.php ...
> if you have the xilinx tools, and can compile any sort of 
> processor vhdl to a bitstream, then I'll send you a board.
> (I have 4 right now)
> 
> I bought them in the hopes of getting the YASEP vhdl running
> on them, but that will take some devel work I haven't had time
> for yet. I think the pAVR would be pretty cool as well.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 09:26:10PM +0100, Lars Poetter wrote:
> > A big thank you to all helpful comments.
> > 
> > I have had a course on FPGAs. I have read 3 books about it. I talked to
> > colleges that actually did FPGA programming. I reviewed a VHDL Coding
> > convention(I do not know if that really helped much). I downloaded and
> > installed the Xlinx Software for Linux.
> > 
> > Buts that about it. I never wrote any VHDL or Verilog.
> > 
> > The chance to work on FPGAs at work did not come. For small private
> > projects ?Controllers are cheaper and _I_ can do these projects much
> > faster without FPGA. For bigger Projects FPGAs would be an option, but I
> > don't trust them due to my limited experience.
> > 
> > Just buying a Dev-board and figuring it all out doesn't work for me. I
> > don't have that much time anymore. Besides that was the point about Arduino.
> > 
> > Arduino is not about the Hardware. There are a lot of Dev-boards
> > available for all the processors out there, they are better, cheaper,
> > have more features, more ram, more pins, less pins, whatever you like.
> > 
> > But they are not a solution for starters !
> > 
> > If you are a company and give a Dev-board to the new employee, you give
> > him the tools, some time and peers to ask some questions and he will
> > learn whatever processor you gave him - no problem.
> > 
> > If I would work on a project which needs to use one special FPGA I would
> > learn how that thing works and after a hard starting phase I would be
> > getting better and better with FPGAs. But up until now that project
> > never came around.
> > 
> > It's probably that I'm too old, have too less time or too much money, or
> > that I'm not motivated enough. But just getting some board and start
> > playing will not happen. It will probably not work and I have enough
> > stuff that collects dust.
> > 
> > I don't need more books as I think I know enough to evaluate at the
> > start of the project if an FPGA can be a solution in this specific
> > project or not. If I think yes I ask an expert to verify.
> > 
> > I don't need just some Board that does or does not something. I will
> > happy buy a board that
> >  - commes with the complete software, that runs on Linux, needed to
> > program the FPGA,
> >  - that includes a documentation with simple steps of how to use the
> > software(That was the problem with the Xilinx Software. It installed a
> > set of tools that all seamed to have something to do with the steps
> > needed. But where should one start ?),
> >  - an example that implements something at least a little bit useful(A
> > blinking LED that can be switched on or of with a button is fine, or
> > play something on SPDIF just a frequency sweep would be fine)
> >  - the documentation should explain every step from source code to
> > running example,
> >  - has a community around it with people that have the same board an
> > that I can ask for help,
> >  - is not the private proprietary property of one company alone.
> > 
> > But that seems to much to ask. Check with Arduino, Arduino fulfills all
> > these points. And I must say that I don't even like Arduino. For
> > ?Controllers I go with just some Dev-board (because I know which are the
> > important features to look for), I don't need a idiot proof IDE (because
> > I know the tools and don't want to get limited in what features I can
> > use), i don't need their libraries(They sacrifice performance,
> > flexibility and power consumption just to make them easier to use), but
> > I would recommend Arduino to people that want to get into embedded
> > programming.
> > 
> > So right now, until the Project that needs an FPGA comes around, or I
> > find an Arduino like FPGA board as described, I will not enter the world
> > of VHDL or Verilog as the entry barriers are just too high for a hobby.
> > It is not something that you can do on a weekend.
> > 
> > Lars
> > 
> > Am 20.12.2012 19:40, schrieb Attila Kinali:
> > > On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:05:14 +0100
> > > Lars Poetter <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > 
> > >>> I would like to ask you to stop pushing ideas around and start doing
> > >>> something. Like writing some letters, meeting people and getting a big
> > >>> investor. Or doing some verilog coding. There are also drivers that
> > >>> need to be written... etc. Timothy will for sure be happy to give you
> > >>> a list of things that need to be done.
> > >>
> > >> I don't know big Investors, so I have no one to write letters to and I
> > >> have never ever coded verilog. So that leaves me with nothing to do to
> > >> help.
> > > 
> > > Not knowing something doesn't mean you cannot aquire the skills.
> > > 
> > >> I would like to start programming FPGAs. But I don't know where to
> > >> start.
> > > 
> > > Pick up a good book, read it. Decide what small project you'd like
> > > to do and start coding :-)
> > > 
> > > I currently would recomend to go for "Digital Design - An Embedded
> > > Systems Approach" by Peter Ashenden. There is both a Verilog and
> > > a VHDL version of that book. For starting, i would recomend VHDL
> > > over Verilog. Although VHDL is a lot more verbose than Verilog,
> > > it has a lot clearer structure and prevents you from a lot of
> > > typos and small mistakes that are very hard to spot in Verilog.
> > > Learning Verilog later is like learning Java when you know C++.
> > > The base concepts are the same, there is some difference in syntax
> > > and a few in semantics, but nothing major.
> > > 
> > > When you go the VHDL road you should definitly get "The Designers Guide
> > > to VHDL" also by Ashenden, no matter what other book you buy.
> > > It's The Book for VHDL. It contains all the gorry details in a simple
> > > and easy to understand language. Including a lot of the traps with lots
> > > of examples how to actually design circuits. (I have yet to find
> > > a book of similar quality for Verilog)
> > > 
> > > You can find quite a few examples of code on the opencores website[3],
> > > for both Verilog and VHDL. But the quality of those varies a lot.
> > > 
> > > For the impatient, you can find a very simplified overview of different
> > > electronic circuits and their description in VHDL in [4]. This can
> > > serve as an reference guide and can you get started, but is not
> > > enough to learn VLSI design.
> > > 
> > > 
> > >> I do embedded C Programming and for those that want to start
> > >> embedded C Programming it is now easy, because they can start with an
> > >> Arduino. If there is an FPGA-Arduino the please give me an pointer. If
> > >> there isn't, then creating one would probably be a big step towards your
> > >> target of more skilled People.
> > > 
> > > There are several of them. A quite comprehensive list can be found
> > > at [1]. I quite like the DE0-Nano from terasic[2]. But there are others
> > > that are cheaper than that one, and probably better fit your needs.
> > > You don't have to check the size of the FPGA for any of those boards,
> > > as it is very unlikely that you will run out of logic blocks with
> > > your first couple of projects. But you should ensure it comes with
> > > "batteries included". Ie contain power supply, cables and stuff around it.
> > > Makes life a lot easier.
> > > 
> > >                   Attila Kinali
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [1] http://tristesse.org/FPGA/CheapFPGADevelopmentBoards
> > > [2] http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?No=593
> > > [3] http://opencores.org/projects
> > > [4] http://www.actel.com/documents/hdlcode_ug.pdf 
> > > 
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> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Troy Benjegerdes                'da hozer'                 [email protected]
> 
> Somone asked my why I work on this free (http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/)
> software & hardware (http://q3u.be) stuff and not get a real job.
> Charles Shultz had the best answer:
> 
> "Why do musicians compose symphonies and poets write poems? They do it
> because life wouldn't have any meaning for them if they didn't. That's why
> I draw cartoons. It's my life." -- Charles Shultz
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.duskglow.com/mailman/listinfo/open-graphics
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-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Benjegerdes                'da hozer'                 [email protected]

Somone asked my why I work on this free (http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/)
software & hardware (http://q3u.be) stuff and not get a real job.
Charles Shultz had the best answer:

"Why do musicians compose symphonies and poets write poems? They do it
because life wouldn't have any meaning for them if they didn't. That's why
I draw cartoons. It's my life." -- Charles Shultz
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