IMO the main thing that would get OpenCog more adoption would be a really wizzy, easy to use experimentation interface like Tensorflow has...
Putting something like that together is, however, a lot of work and draws on different skills and thought patterns than are currently prevalent in the OpenCog community... ben On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 9:53 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> wrote: > > Roman, yes. Having it's own website might actually be a very good start. -- > linas > > On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 5:20 AM Roman Treutlein <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I think if we want to increase the user-base for the AtomSpace we need to >> market it more/differently. I just tried to find the Atomspace by googling >> combinations of {graph,hypergrah, databse,comparison,...} and I can't. >> Googling "atomspace graph database" only has 4000 results whereas "neo4j >> graph database" has 466000 results. So it doesn't really matter how advanced >> the Atomspace is if nobody can find it. >> >> And I don't think adding more features like a Tinkerpop like API will help >> in that regard. So far we are a bunch of software engineers working on the >> Atomspace so we can use it for OpenCog and I don't know of anybody that uses >> the AtomSpace outside of OpenCog. So to get more user we would need people >> that work on and try to push/sell the Atomspace as an independent product >> with its own Website and stuff. No idea who would/could do something like >> that. But this is my opinion on the topic. >> >> On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 12:02:52 AM UTC+1, linas wrote: >>> >>> So: >>> Here's a quick, unstructured, randomized review of TinkerPop vs. the >>> AtomSpace. >>> >>> * There are many similarities. For example, both tinkerpop and the >>> atomspace have a key-value store per vertex/edge. Tinkerpop edges have >>> valency-2 (one vertex at each end of the edge) and are untyped. Atomspace >>> edges have any valency and are typed. (an atomspace edge aka link, can have >>> two vertexes in it .. or 1 or 3 or 0 or 23... also, a link can contain >>> links. The atomspace stores hypergraphs.) >>> >>> * Tinkerpop4, when it's available, will be hostable by "any" suitable >>> database platform. The AtomSpace has already played in this area: an >>> unsuccessful hosting on memcachedb, a successful hosting on postgres, an >>> unsuccessful one on hypertable, an unsuccessful one on neo4j. The failure >>> reasons are highly variable: memcachedb was too slow. The hypertable >>> developer fundamentally misunderstood the problem. neo4j was too slow (had >>> too large a communications overhead). >>> >>> * Both the atomspace and tinkerpop4 benefit from underlying DB technology: >>> Postgres is highly scalable, yay! Someday, Atomspace will have an Apache >>> Ignite backend, which is also highly scalable. Yay! >>> >>> * Tinkerpop has a MUCH larger development community than the AtomSpace. >>> Which means that they've done stuff long ago that are still in planning >>> stages for us. For example, "the property graph model", which the Atomspace >>> needs but doesn't have (We have real customers for this: the AGI-BIO guys >>> want this! No one is working on it!) (So, for example, key-value pairs >>> are permission-based; AGI-bio wants to overload values, based on the >>> permissions that a given user has, so e.g. there is a read-only version of >>> genomic data, and multiple read-write layers on top of it, that different >>> researchers update. Someone needs to work on this!) >>> >>> * The Gremlin traversal language is almost exactly like a an atomspace >>> pattern with a single clause. There is no concept of a multi-clause >>> traversal in Gremlin. >>> >>> After this, the differences between the two compound and diverge. >>> >>> * The Gremlin traversal language can be compiled to bytecode, and shipped >>> off to be executed remotely. Could we do something similar? Yeah, I guess. >>> But its never been the goal of the atomspace to be a generic wrapper on top >>> of existing OLAP/OLTP systems, so we've never given this much thought. >>> >>> My biggest question/frustration: >>> >>> How can we increase the user-base for the AtomSpace? It's kind of >>> frustrating that the adoption rate for the AtomSpace remains low, even as >>> graph databases become ever more popular. It feels like we're getting left >>> in the dust, and yet, whenever I look around, it feels like we're two steps >>> ahead of everyone else. So I can't figure out if we're winning or loosing. >>> Increasing adoption would really really help... >>> >>> -- Linas >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:20 PM Amirouche Boubekki <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> https://zenodo.org/record/1476234/files/forth-kind.pdf?download=1 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "opencog" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/09200c55-4f0d-4197-8835-a21859a11442%40googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/752eeee7-eadf-4bc3-926a-bff1ba5860e1%40googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34NvfzZVKgeq3yjk78ZBA50pWqzaqOp58iGwAOAgz%3DFsA%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "The dewdrop world / Is the dewdrop world / And yet, and yet …" -- Kobayashi Issa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CACYTDBfDgqE9YMC-c5Jbqsp%3DcejoYi1qLxb7iEx4kYF%2B7GGnwg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
