I don't think it's a chicken-egg problem. Developers don't choose open-source projects to contribute to because they are respectable or have fancy websites. They choose them because they scratch an itch the developer has. What itch does the Atomspace scratch? ...besides Ben's itch to have an in-memory data store tightly-coupled to the CogPrime Architecture? (or whatever it's called these days...)
If we're actually ready to promote Atomspace as a stand-alone graph db, I suggest marketing messages of the form, "If you like Neo4j / ArangoDB / JanusGraph, but it's too _____ for your use case, and/or your data records are ______ than average, you should consider using Atomspace." I suspect the blanks are, "slow" and "smaller & more connected," but I haven't been paying much attention the last couple years, so I could be wrong. All the Best, Matt -- Standard Disclaimer: Please interpret brevity as me valuing your time, and not as any negative intention. On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 5:21 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> wrote: > But its a chicken-and-egg problem respectable open-source projects have > respectable, even slick websites. The atomspace doesn't. To the outsider, > that implies its somehow not ready, its still some garage-tinkering > project. If it doesn't get out of the garage, the user-base doesn't grow, > and its a feedback cycle; without a user base, there's not enough > headcount. > > --linas > > On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 6:46 PM Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > >> IMO the main thing that would get OpenCog more adoption would be a >> really wizzy, easy to use experimentation interface like Tensorflow >> has... >> >> Putting something like that together is, however, a lot of work and >> draws on different skills and thought patterns than are currently >> prevalent in the OpenCog community... >> >> ben >> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 9:53 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > Roman, yes. Having it's own website might actually be a very good >> start. -- linas >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 5:20 AM Roman Treutlein <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> I think if we want to increase the user-base for the AtomSpace we need >> to market it more/differently. I just tried to find the Atomspace by >> googling combinations of {graph,hypergrah, databse,comparison,...} and I >> can't. Googling "atomspace graph database" only has 4000 results whereas >> "neo4j graph database" has 466000 results. So it doesn't really matter how >> advanced the Atomspace is if nobody can find it. >> >> >> >> And I don't think adding more features like a Tinkerpop like API will >> help in that regard. So far we are a bunch of software engineers working on >> the Atomspace so we can use it for OpenCog and I don't know of anybody that >> uses the AtomSpace outside of OpenCog. So to get more user we would need >> people that work on and try to push/sell the Atomspace as an independent >> product with its own Website and stuff. No idea who would/could do >> something like that. But this is my opinion on the topic. >> >> >> >> On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 12:02:52 AM UTC+1, linas wrote: >> >>> >> >>> So: >> >>> Here's a quick, unstructured, randomized review of TinkerPop vs. the >> AtomSpace. >> >>> >> >>> * There are many similarities. For example, both tinkerpop and the >> atomspace have a key-value store per vertex/edge. Tinkerpop edges have >> valency-2 (one vertex at each end of the edge) and are untyped. Atomspace >> edges have any valency and are typed. (an atomspace edge aka link, can have >> two vertexes in it .. or 1 or 3 or 0 or 23... also, a link can contain >> links. The atomspace stores hypergraphs.) >> >>> >> >>> * Tinkerpop4, when it's available, will be hostable by "any" suitable >> database platform. The AtomSpace has already played in this area: an >> unsuccessful hosting on memcachedb, a successful hosting on postgres, an >> unsuccessful one on hypertable, an unsuccessful one on neo4j. The failure >> reasons are highly variable: memcachedb was too slow. The hypertable >> developer fundamentally misunderstood the problem. neo4j was too slow (had >> too large a communications overhead). >> >>> >> >>> * Both the atomspace and tinkerpop4 benefit from underlying DB >> technology: Postgres is highly scalable, yay! Someday, Atomspace will have >> an Apache Ignite backend, which is also highly scalable. Yay! >> >>> >> >>> * Tinkerpop has a MUCH larger development community than the >> AtomSpace. Which means that they've done stuff long ago that are still in >> planning stages for us. For example, "the property graph model", which the >> Atomspace needs but doesn't have (We have real customers for this: the >> AGI-BIO guys want this! No one is working on it!) (So, for example, >> key-value pairs are permission-based; AGI-bio wants to overload values, >> based on the permissions that a given user has, so e.g. there is a >> read-only version of genomic data, and multiple read-write layers on top of >> it, that different researchers update. Someone needs to work on this!) >> >>> >> >>> * The Gremlin traversal language is almost exactly like a an >> atomspace pattern with a single clause. There is no concept of a >> multi-clause traversal in Gremlin. >> >>> >> >>> After this, the differences between the two compound and diverge. >> >>> >> >>> * The Gremlin traversal language can be compiled to bytecode, and >> shipped off to be executed remotely. Could we do something similar? Yeah, I >> guess. But its never been the goal of the atomspace to be a generic wrapper >> on top of existing OLAP/OLTP systems, so we've never given this much >> thought. >> >>> >> >>> My biggest question/frustration: >> >>> >> >>> How can we increase the user-base for the AtomSpace? It's kind of >> frustrating that the adoption rate for the AtomSpace remains low, even as >> graph databases become ever more popular. It feels like we're getting left >> in the dust, and yet, whenever I look around, it feels like we're two steps >> ahead of everyone else. So I can't figure out if we're winning or loosing. >> Increasing adoption would really really help... >> >>> >> >>> -- Linas >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:20 PM Amirouche Boubekki < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> https://zenodo.org/record/1476234/files/forth-kind.pdf?download=1 >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "opencog" group. >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to [email protected]. >> >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/09200c55-4f0d-4197-8835-a21859a11442%40googlegroups.com >> . >> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "opencog" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to [email protected]. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/752eeee7-eadf-4bc3-926a-bff1ba5860e1%40googlegroups.com >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "opencog" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to [email protected]. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34NvfzZVKgeq3yjk78ZBA50pWqzaqOp58iGwAOAgz%3DFsA%40mail.gmail.com >> . >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> Ben Goertzel, PhD >> http://goertzel.org >> >> "The dewdrop world / Is the dewdrop world / And yet, and yet …" -- >> Kobayashi Issa >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CACYTDBfDgqE9YMC-c5Jbqsp%3DcejoYi1qLxb7iEx4kYF%2B7GGnwg%40mail.gmail.com >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34J4v5Dm_UgUshazvTgLZneYnxm81Xei%3DJko3TS%3DcJwng%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34J4v5Dm_UgUshazvTgLZneYnxm81Xei%3DJko3TS%3DcJwng%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. 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