But its a chicken-and-egg problem respectable open-source projects have respectable, even slick websites. The atomspace doesn't. To the outsider, that implies its somehow not ready, its still some garage-tinkering project. If it doesn't get out of the garage, the user-base doesn't grow, and its a feedback cycle; without a user base, there's not enough headcount.
--linas On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 6:46 PM Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > IMO the main thing that would get OpenCog more adoption would be a > really wizzy, easy to use experimentation interface like Tensorflow > has... > > Putting something like that together is, however, a lot of work and > draws on different skills and thought patterns than are currently > prevalent in the OpenCog community... > > ben > On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 9:53 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Roman, yes. Having it's own website might actually be a very good start. > -- linas > > > > On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 5:20 AM Roman Treutlein <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> I think if we want to increase the user-base for the AtomSpace we need > to market it more/differently. I just tried to find the Atomspace by > googling combinations of {graph,hypergrah, databse,comparison,...} and I > can't. Googling "atomspace graph database" only has 4000 results whereas > "neo4j graph database" has 466000 results. So it doesn't really matter how > advanced the Atomspace is if nobody can find it. > >> > >> And I don't think adding more features like a Tinkerpop like API will > help in that regard. So far we are a bunch of software engineers working on > the Atomspace so we can use it for OpenCog and I don't know of anybody that > uses the AtomSpace outside of OpenCog. So to get more user we would need > people that work on and try to push/sell the Atomspace as an independent > product with its own Website and stuff. No idea who would/could do > something like that. But this is my opinion on the topic. > >> > >> On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 12:02:52 AM UTC+1, linas wrote: > >>> > >>> So: > >>> Here's a quick, unstructured, randomized review of TinkerPop vs. the > AtomSpace. > >>> > >>> * There are many similarities. For example, both tinkerpop and the > atomspace have a key-value store per vertex/edge. Tinkerpop edges have > valency-2 (one vertex at each end of the edge) and are untyped. Atomspace > edges have any valency and are typed. (an atomspace edge aka link, can have > two vertexes in it .. or 1 or 3 or 0 or 23... also, a link can contain > links. The atomspace stores hypergraphs.) > >>> > >>> * Tinkerpop4, when it's available, will be hostable by "any" suitable > database platform. The AtomSpace has already played in this area: an > unsuccessful hosting on memcachedb, a successful hosting on postgres, an > unsuccessful one on hypertable, an unsuccessful one on neo4j. The failure > reasons are highly variable: memcachedb was too slow. The hypertable > developer fundamentally misunderstood the problem. neo4j was too slow (had > too large a communications overhead). > >>> > >>> * Both the atomspace and tinkerpop4 benefit from underlying DB > technology: Postgres is highly scalable, yay! Someday, Atomspace will have > an Apache Ignite backend, which is also highly scalable. Yay! > >>> > >>> * Tinkerpop has a MUCH larger development community than the > AtomSpace. Which means that they've done stuff long ago that are still in > planning stages for us. For example, "the property graph model", which the > Atomspace needs but doesn't have (We have real customers for this: the > AGI-BIO guys want this! No one is working on it!) (So, for example, > key-value pairs are permission-based; AGI-bio wants to overload values, > based on the permissions that a given user has, so e.g. there is a > read-only version of genomic data, and multiple read-write layers on top of > it, that different researchers update. Someone needs to work on this!) > >>> > >>> * The Gremlin traversal language is almost exactly like a an atomspace > pattern with a single clause. There is no concept of a multi-clause > traversal in Gremlin. > >>> > >>> After this, the differences between the two compound and diverge. > >>> > >>> * The Gremlin traversal language can be compiled to bytecode, and > shipped off to be executed remotely. Could we do something similar? Yeah, I > guess. But its never been the goal of the atomspace to be a generic wrapper > on top of existing OLAP/OLTP systems, so we've never given this much > thought. > >>> > >>> My biggest question/frustration: > >>> > >>> How can we increase the user-base for the AtomSpace? It's kind of > frustrating that the adoption rate for the AtomSpace remains low, even as > graph databases become ever more popular. It feels like we're getting left > in the dust, and yet, whenever I look around, it feels like we're two steps > ahead of everyone else. So I can't figure out if we're winning or loosing. > Increasing adoption would really really help... > >>> > >>> -- Linas > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:20 PM Amirouche Boubekki < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> https://zenodo.org/record/1476234/files/forth-kind.pdf?download=1 > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "opencog" group. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to [email protected]. > >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. > >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/09200c55-4f0d-4197-8835-a21859a11442%40googlegroups.com > . > >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "opencog" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/752eeee7-eadf-4bc3-926a-bff1ba5860e1%40googlegroups.com > . > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > > > -- > > cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "opencog" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34NvfzZVKgeq3yjk78ZBA50pWqzaqOp58iGwAOAgz%3DFsA%40mail.gmail.com > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > http://goertzel.org > > "The dewdrop world / Is the dewdrop world / And yet, and yet …" -- > Kobayashi Issa > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CACYTDBfDgqE9YMC-c5Jbqsp%3DcejoYi1qLxb7iEx4kYF%2B7GGnwg%40mail.gmail.com > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. 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