The thing I just figured out is that the weed brought by the venture capitalists was of a very high quality!
You should at least share it with us! Cause we're not on the same trip! On May 19, 2014 7:30 PM, "Fabien Pinckaers" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 05/19/2014 02:54 PM, TeMPO Consulting wrote: > > Hello Fabien > > > > after attending two webminars and reading all the mail related to > > pricing I still have two major questions > > > > 1. are the prices listed at https://www.odoo.com/page/pricing related > > to the SaaS offer or to Odoo Enterprise, or both ? > > Both. We want to keep the same price/contract in order to not create > pricing competition between both. It also allows people to switch from > saas to on-premise without having to change their contracts. > > > 2. if they also apply to Odoo Enterprise what is the SLA provided by > > the "Community Support" ? > > What do you mean by community support? > > > > > > many thanks for your reply. > > > > Maurice MORETTI > > > >>> Basic math for a client with 20 users and 5 apps for 24 months: > >>> * 20 users x 5 apps x 24 months x $15 = $36,000 > >>> * Partner commission for 24 months (~50%)= $18,000 > >> No, this is a common usecase: > >> > >> Here is a typical use case (with old pricing), 40 users: > >> - Public Price: $18720 > >> - Partner Price: $9360 (a ready partner) > >> - Price sold to customer: $13.000 > >> - Implementation Cost: $90.000 > >> > >> Maintenance part of the TCO: 12.6% > >> Commission part of the TCO: 3.5% > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Fabien Pinckaers <[email protected] > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I just wrote a blog to explain the new pricing: > >>> https://www.odoo.com/blog/1/post/158 > >>> > >>> Please read it before going further in this email. > >>> > >>> > >>> I'll try to answer most questions here: > >>> > >>> 1/ How to compute the price? > >>> > >>> The price is: # total of users X # of apps bundle X 12€ > >>> > >>> 2/ Why don't we charge according to real usage? (e.g.: 5 users on > CRM, 3 > >>> on accounting, 7 on projects?) > >>> > >>> Because it's impossible to predict for yearly contracts! Quoting > would > >>> become a nightmare and a lot of people would abuse from this > unclear > >>> situation. (a customer would start with a low price but three month > >>> after we would have to upsell him because of the number of users > on some > >>> apps) > >>> > >>> Lets take the following use case: a company of 10 users that uses > CRM, > >>> accounting, projects. They have 3 sales person, 4 consultants, 1 > >>> director, 1 secretary and 1 accountant. > >>> > >>> When you do a quote for this customer, how many users do they have > per > >>> application? > >>> - is the director using accounting and CRM? > >>> - can the sales have read access to project for follow-ups to > their > >>> customers? > >>> - can the accounting check sales orders coming from the sales? > >>> - is it the secreatary that give access rights to others users? > >>> > >>> I checked in our production database. We have 7 persons working in > the > >>> marketing department. If one do a quote of 7 users for the > marketing > >>> application bundle, it's totally under-estimated. > >>> > >>> In reality, we have 45 users on marketing application, not 7: > >>> - the Professional Service team that built the certification > sample > >>> exam on the website (survey) > >>> - users that train others users on features > >>> - managers that need statistics about events, mass mailing, ... > >>> - most sales need an access to check prospects on events, > >>> - system administrator need an access to allocate access rights > and > >>> test for others users > >>> > >>> 3/ Is it expensive? > >>> > >>> Absolutly not. It's 2x to 3x cheaper than the market average. > Check this > >>> comparison of software vendors: > >>> https://www.odoo.com/website/image/ir.attachment/537400/datas > >>> > >>> Moreover, partners get 50% to 60% discount on the public price. It > means > >>> gold partners pay only 4.8€ / $6 per user and per application. > Whatever > >>> the market, it's super cheap and super competitive. > >>> > >>> > >>> 4/ Is it an increase of the price? > >>> > >>> For some customers: no. (1-3 apps) > >>> For some customers: yes. > >>> > >>> The biggest increase would be around 2x more for one particular > customer > >>> that uses a lot of applications. (6) I never saw a company running > 10 > >>> apps and if they do, it's normal that they pay 120€ per user > because the > >>> value they get from Odoo is huge. No other product can offer this. > >>> > >>> > >>> 5/ localization & customization > >>> > >>> Odoo has a lot of huge advantages compared to traditional ERPs: > >>> - higher scope: website, ecommerce, cubes analysis, CRM, ... > >>> - better usability, faster implementation > >>> - better flexibility: allows custom development and high level > config > >>> > >>> Odoo also has a few disadvantages compared to traditional ERPs, > the main > >>> one is the localization in some countries. (something we will fix > for v9 > >>> as we will massively invest in accounting l18n) > >>> > >>> Odoo has a lot of PROS and a few CONs. But the few CONs are largely > >>> compensated by the PROs. As the product is better, economics tell > us > >>> that the product must be more expensive. > >>> > >>> Not only we are not more expensive, but we are at least 2x to 3x > >>> cheaper. And, if you take the partner price 4.8€ per user and per > app, > >>> we are 6x cheaper than the competition! > >>> > >>> I do not know a lot of industry where a product can be 2X cheaper > for a > >>> better quality. > >>> > >>> One should not be frustrated about the price. > >>> > >>> @marcelo > >>> > I recently read the posts by the Compiere founder explaining what > >>> > went wrong after he got VC money. Read it and it will look like > it is > >>> > all happening again. > >>> Every time we do a change in the community people cry: take care of > >>> forks, read Jorge's blog, VCs are evil, OpenERP does not > understand its > >>> users... > >>> > >>> Odoo is not comparable to Compiere/Tryton/Openbravo or others. The > >>> sustainability of a product is not related at all with fork > threats, > >>> failure of others open source software or what ever. > >>> > >>> The sustainability of every product is directly linked to it's > ability > >>> to create a sustainable model where partners and publishers get > enough > >>> revenues to grow their activities on the product. > >>> > >>> This requires a lot of things like: having a great product > allowing good > >>> service margins, a good price for the publisher, happy customers, > etc. > >>> > >>> > What kind of business puts potential clients in front of > active > >>> > paying clients? The model is wrong wrong wrong. > >>> > >>> What's wrong is to have a pricing so cheap that it does not allow > to > >>> sustain the development of the product, or too few customers > because the > >>> product is not competitive. That's what killed some products. > >>> > >>> > If Odoo was a ready-to-use software then the model would > make a > >>> > lot of sense. But they are ignoring the importance of > localization & > >>> > customization. If I wanted off the shelf software I wouldn't > bother > >>> > going open source. > >>> > >>> Our customers don't choose Odoo beause it's open source. They > choose > >>> Odoo because it's better (products and/or servives of partners) > >>> > >>> We should stop being frustrated of being open source. It's not > because > >>> we are open source that we should be cheaper. The only thing that > >>> matters for a customer is to have a great product at an affordable > >>> price. > >>> > >>> Open Source is not a customer value, it's a way to develop better > >>> products. > >>> > >>> > >>> > Also, this thing that partners will not get any > commission > >>> > on contracts with more than two years is REALLY > nonsense. It > >>> > essentially means that the contract will become 50% more > >>> > expensive on the 3rd year because the partner will need > that > >>> > revenue back and of course it will be important for the > client > >>> > to keep bonds with the partner. It is really sad when > >>> companies > >>> > pull this sort of crap on their "partners". > >>> > >>> My understanding is that partners don't sell Odoo Enterprise > because of > >>> their commissions. They sell it because they need it for their > customers > >>> and because this allows them to sell more services. (and this is > how it > >>> should be) > >>> > >>> The part of the commission on Odoo Enterprise is usually lower > than 4% > >>> of the revenue a partner take on a project. So, their motivation > is not > >>> on the commission. > >>> > >>> I may be wrong. I am open to discuss this during the community > days. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hope it helps better understanding this strategic move, > >>> Thanks for the feedback, > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Fabien Pinckaers > >>> Odoo Founder > >>> > >>> Phone: +32.81.81.37.00 <tel:%2B32.81.81.37.00> > >>> Web: https://www.odoo.com > >>> Twitter: @fpopenerp > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > >>> Post to : [email protected] > >>> <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Très cordialement > > > > Maurice MORETTI > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > TeMPO CONSULTING 20, avenue de la Paix 67000 Strasbourg FRANCE > > > > Web : http://www.tempo-consulting.fr > > email : [email protected] > > > > Tel : 33 (0)3 88 56 82 10 > > Fax : 33 (0)3 88 56 46 64 > > Mobile : 33 (0)6 08 61 85 02 > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > > Post to : [email protected] > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > -- > Fabien Pinckaers > Odoo Founder > > Phone: +32.81.81.37.00 > Web: https://www.odoo.com > Twitter: @fpodoo > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > Post to : [email protected] > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >
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