On Wed, 2012-12-12 at 08:15 +0000, Tom wrote: just a detail / confirmation about UI customization:
> the development of a bespoke OpenSim viewer is vital. I would argue > that an OpenSim viewer is therefore needed. RealXtend is one > possibility (having just seen Toni Alatalo's posting) although > personally I am not too keen on the viewer frontend. I suspect that > the frontend is something that could be readily changed >and TPVs are > very good at this. Indeed -- even in the extreme extent that with Tundra SDK there is no 'the' frontend. By default if you launch the app you just get a black screen, showing an empty scene (just like Ogre normally when you just create a window with no content). The UI's for chat and AVs etc. are written in javascript and are typically loaded from the net when the client logs in to some service. So for example if the Opensim community or some TPV team agrees on some default Avatar & chat bubbles behaviour, with that tech it is easy to do in a modular fashion. Again I'm not saying that current realXtend stuff would work for everyone's (or anyone's :) Opensimulator needs out of the box, but at least such modularity and customization is implemented there. ~Toni > On 12 Dec 2012, at 02:03, Adams, Robert wrote: > > > The SL viewer model is an all in one application – viewer, editor, > > chat client, connection manager, … > > > > Maybe a way of attacking the problem is to separate the parts and > > not think about building one behemoth application that does > > everything. > > > > Some projects (like Radegast or Lumiya) have made interesting > > progress on a viewer. Maybe content creation can be handled with > > Blender plugins? Maybe the chat/voice client could be one of the > > gaming services? Maybe the social connection/interaction framework > > could be Facebook (OK. No one would ever choose Facebook but any > > service is possible). > > > > Then, of course, there is the problem of the client/server protocol. > > LLLP (my term for “Linden Lab Legacy Protocol”) grew organically and > > had different problems to solve (remember the days when SL worked > > over dialup modems?). An organized, partition-able protocol would go > > a long way toward making new clients (mobile or continuously > > connected or …) and servers (distributed or dynamically > > reconfigurable or …) possible. It’s just a new OpenSimulator region > > module to talk a new language. > > > > Anyway, just throwing that out there. > > > > -- ra > > > > From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de > > [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de]On Behalf Of Mircea > > Kitsune > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:00 PM > > To: opensim-dev mailing list > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] OpenSim's direction after Linden cutting > > support, and the possibility of an official OpenSim viewer > > > > Ironically, Firestorm is one of the viewers I like least. It's > > actually starting to worry me how it's monopolizing all third-party > > viewers and being the only v3 fork getting any attention at this > > day. Earlier I read that the admin of the Teapot viewer isn't > > updating Teapot any more because he's now working for Firestorm > > too... ugh >_< I do appreciate their team's effort of course, but I > > don't like that it's becoming the only alternative, and I'm not sure > > what else to find and use that I'm comfortable with. > > > > But like I explained in the first email, I believe the SL code base > > is the only path we've got rather than a dead end. SL's system > > (which OpenSim primarily went with during those years) is a very > > complex thing. Implementing all of its features from scratch in a > > good and consistent way would be an effort so big there will likely > > never be anyone doing it when SL is already there. There was an > > original viewer once which could render avatars, terrain and > > objects, but that was about it. > > > > The list of features and details is too big. The building tools with > > grid snapping, arrows to drag / rotate objects, texture position > > editing, etc. The avatar customization menu, where you customize > > worn shapes / skins / alpha masks / clothing. Avatar physics, such > > as clothing fluttering in the wind. The terrain editor with the > > raise / lower / flatten / smooth tools. The IM / chat / groups > > systems with all their sub-features. Voice chat support. Sculpt > > primitives and mesh rendering. Ability to play media on a prim and > > use HTML pages on object surfaces. The windlight sky and environment > > (which can also be set as a parcel property). Particles, sounds, > > spinning objects (llTargetOmega) and the many things you do with LSL > > scripts. Post-processing with bloom, depth of field, bump-mapping, > > etc. > > > > All this and more would take beyond a decade to re-create from > > scratch, and I couldn't imagine a new viewer ever doing them all as > > well as Second Life. If anyone would ever get that done from zero as > > part of a FOSS viewer, I will consider them a scientist that > > deserves a job at NASA :) I'm actually surprised even LL did so much > > in just 8 years, but what was achieved is really impressive. Overall > > I just don't think it's a possible goal, and at the same time I > > don't believe OpenSim can expect other dev teams to maintain them a > > SL viewer (just what I think). With Firestorm taking up everything, > > I'm already having a hard time finding a viewer good for me to use, > > and I'd like to know what can be expected in the recent future. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:20:15 -0800 > > From: javajo...@gmail.com > > To: ri...@rigutech.nl; opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] OpenSim's direction after Linden cutting > > support, and the possibility of an official OpenSim viewer > > > > > > Hmm, it's been Over Two Years since I wrote this on my old blog: > > http://www.daniel.org/blog/2010/09/19/in-unity-a-way-forward/ > > > > I wonder what the state of the art is for any viewers based on > > Unity, WebGL, or something else? > > > > The LL code base is an evolutionary dead end. Firestorm does a > > great job of making the best of it, and it deserves to be the #1 > > viewer. Ongoing Kudos to the FS team! Having said that, no TPV (or > > LL) viewer is going to catch up to what is possible on a better > > foundation. > > > > It would be great to see two things happen: > > 1) TPV effort consolidate *even more* around Firestorm.. make it be > > the one thing that can tide everyone over until there is a non > > LL-codebase viewer. > > 2) see a good pioneering effort based on Unity, WebGL, or something > > else > > > > As far as I know, we're not close to the capabilities I was writing > > about two years ago. It's a pretty good bet that the gulf between > > the LL codebase and what could be done in Unity is even wider now. > > > > Daniel > > http://daniel,org/cafebucky > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Opensim-dev mailing > > list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > > _______________________________________________ > > Opensim-dev mailing list > > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > > Tom Willans BSc(Hons) MBCS CITP > PhD Student > Serious Games Institute, Coventry University > United Kingdom > > > Senior Research Representative: Faculty of Engineering and Computing > Managing Director Bessacarr Publications Ltd > +44 (0)121 288 0281 > email: tom.will...@bessacarr.com > skype: tom.willans > Second Life and OSGrid: Tom Tiros > > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev _______________________________________________ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
