Correct. They also have FUNDING. The apache foundation has lot of
paid permanent staff, as well as money for bounties and hired
programmers.

Of course they can have the luxury of a roadmap.

Same goes for other projects that do that level of organization.

- Melanie

On 11/11/2015 01:53, Glenn Martin wrote:
> To me, this has always been the major weakness of open source software.
> I've seen this on many other projects.  There is a "core" in charge but,
> ultimately, they focus only on things that they need for their work.  When
> somebody suggests a feature, the response is usually of the form "that
> would be a great addition!  If you could code that up, please submit it".
> I completely understand the feeling there, but it's hard to build up a
> major user base that way (the projects continue to stay in "toy" phase).
>
> The truly successful open source projects DO have a roadmap and they DO
> code towards it.  They are real projects that just happen to be open source.
>
> Glenn
>
>
> NOTICE: The opinions and thoughts in this email are my own and do not
> reflect those of any other person or organization.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Melanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > You keep on about organizational things like a defined roadmap and
> > documentation. These are things generally produced by organized and
> > PAID bodies.
> >
> > Core is a team of developers who just as soon let the code do the
> > talking. Few of us have any talent for doing big writeups and these
> > few are doing other things that take up their time, mostly in academia.
> >
> > Core is consensus-based and there is no "boss" to set out a roadmap
> > everyone else has to follow. We all volunteer our time and
> > creativity for this project and to most of us, this is a
> > recreational activity, not work.
> >
> > Admittedly, the project could profit from some guidance, but that
> > same guidance would likely lead to a loss of active developers, as
> > people who volunteer their time want to do what they like to do, not
> > what some roadmap tells them to. This discussion has been had before.
> >
> > If it were at all possible, I would certainly take up that mantle,
> > but that would dis-mantle the team as it stands now. The current
> > team isn't interested in fulfilling expectations other than those of
> > their own and the users they are working with.
> >
> > For most of the team, that is users of social virtual worlds who
> > could care less about accurate stats, but do care about three green
> > lights on the lag meter. They actually don't even care if the stats
> > show 11 or 55, as long as the lag meter is green.
> >
> > I have had people (in other grids) tell me "This place is so
> > laggy!". I then would move my avatar around to test responsiveness
> > and find that there is no lag, so I would ask them "Why do you
> > consider this laggy? I can't see any lag?" and get "The lag meter
> > shows the sim is lagging" as a reply. These people, several people
> > in multiple grids, then announced to be going back to SL where there
> > is no lag.
> >
> > Go figure.
> >
> > We are there to make things work for the majority of our users.
> > Sorry to say, MOSES and scientists are not a majority. The thousands
> > of social grid users spread across all the virtual worlds are.
> >
> > - Melanie
> >
> > On 11/11/2015 00:44, dz wrote:
> > > I am  astounded  at  how much of the dialogue about this issue   you both
> > >  choose to ignore.
> > >
> > > Please  publish the location of the ROADMAP of REAL CORE problems.... I
> > > will be  happy  to attend the  MOSES meetings  and attempt to get those
> > >  issues on their agenda.  Don't  blame people for working on the things
> > > that are important to them when that is the example set by core over a
> > long
> > > period.   You expect people to help and  then denegrate them  for not
> > > attacking the problems  you REFUSE to document and share in public.
> > >
> > > When  did  MOSES  get access to commit the patch???    The patch was
> > > accepted   after a significant amount of  conversation...    Everyone BUT
> > > you and Melanie  voted it  +1...  you can't rewrite the history and
> > assert
> > > that the problem is because  MOSES committed a patch...  CORE committed
> > the
> > > patch at the request of this community.
> > >
> > > I have repeatedly asked for the identification of these mysterious  users
> > >  who are the source of this avalanche of complaints...   I apologize for
> > > assuming they resided on Melanies  grid...
> > > Now  that I hear   that  her users  aren't the source of the complaints
> > > I'm left to wonder if there is ANY justification for  reverting the
> > > stats..  PLEASE share with the group what the source of these complaints
> > is
> > >   so we can begin a dialogue.  I participate in a LOT of OpenSim related
> > > forums   just for that purpose...   I haven't  seen  any of the  noise
> > >  that is  supposedly deafening.
> > >
> > > Assuming "they"  truly are  upset, I haven't herd a peep  about  why it
> > is
> > > appropriate  for some backroom decision  to override the consensus built
> > in
> > > this forum over a period of months.
> > > I'm sorry,  I've tried  repeatedly to figure out  WHY it is important to
> > > revert, and all I keep hearing  is  "Melanie  didnt know it  would
> > affect a
> > > lag meter"..   This  argument  was extended to include  " We have to
> > > accommodate users of viewers  that are NO LONGER being  maintained"...
> > >  HOW in the world  can that be a viable position for you to defend Neb,
> > >  when your rant  was directed at the importance of moving forward with
> > > viewer developers  or we are dead...??
> > >
> > > I really  am trying  to figure this out,  but  all I see as responses
> >  is
> > >   "You are  wrong,  I changed my mind,  it is  import to  someone  who
> > >  still hasn't  spoken on this list"   The  whole point of this list is to
> > > share the issues that are important.... Given the volume of traffic on
> > the
> > > subject,  it obviously is.    Please  share  some  REAL information about
> > > the actual impact  so we can re-evaluate the  needs of the WHOLE
> > community.
> > >      We  don't  know  WHO is  complaining,,  We  HAVE heard that you can
> > > turn the blinking lights into numeric representations ( even in the OLD
> > > meters),   We HAVE heard  that there is a JIRA for the  viewer team to
> > > remove/update the functioning of the lag meter..     Everyone agrees
> > that
> > > the lag meter  cant possibly be correct   so I find it impossible to
> > > believe that it is  INTEGRAL to the success of  Opensim.    All of use
> > who
> > > wanted accurate stats  could be  wrong,   but I'd  sure like to know
> > WHY,
> > >  not just have someone  pronounce  we are  and  implement yet another
> > > obscure  INI variable..
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Doug I participated in MOSES grid as well and my experience there was
> > >> terrible, far worse performance than i experienced in any other grid, I
> > >> took part in the FCVW build and planning and experienced a multitude of
> > >> problems on MOSES platform that just do not exist in the core
> > opensimulator
> > >> software.  And this is what I mean by chasing ghosts, MOSES is fixing
> > bugs
> > >> in MOSES for MOSES that just do not exist in the core software.  You can
> > >> feel however you want and if you feel embarrassed then go work on MOSES
> > >> software, no one is stopping you.  I do agree though that this whole
> > thing
> > >> is quite a huge embarrassment for the project.  It still does not change
> > >> the fact that to date no improvements have come from this change and all
> > >> its done is cause arguments, the reason their code was not accepted is
> > >> because it was not suitable for core, end of story.  They wanted us to
> > >> accept patches unconditionally and sorry, that is not going to happen.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Michael Emory Cerquoni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Opensim-dev mailing list
> > >> [email protected]
> > >> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
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