On Wednesday, 11 January 2017 18:09:04 CET Sands, Daniel wrote:
> Just a note from my own experience way back when:  I tried hashing using
> various algos and measuring bucket use as the main comparison criteria.
> I found that the crypto hashes left a fair number of unused buckets. 

I can explain that only in two ways:
 1. "crypto hashes" were biased
 2. the test used too many buckets compared to number of entries

to put it mildly, option 1 is "unlikely"

so since I don't want to point fingers, I'd say we need more data before we 
can discredit use of cryptographically secure hashes for this use case...

> Of
> course, CRCs were far worse.  What gave the most normal distribution was
> to simply take the bytes 4 at a time as 32-bit integers and simply add
> them.
> 
> Not to say that this is really the holy grail, just pointing out that
> compute speed shouldn't be the only criteria you use for comparison.
> 
> On Wed, 2017-01-11 at 15:43 +0100, Richard Levitte wrote:
> > A note: I have absolutely nothing against the addition of SIPhash in
> > our collection of hash algos.  My scepticism was only in regards to
> > using it as a string hasher for our hash tables indexes.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Richard
> > 
> > In message <20170111.153458.1623912899597806811.levi...@openssl.org> on
> > Wed, 11 Jan 2017 15:34:58 +0100 (CET), Richard Levitte
> > <levi...@openssl.org> said:
> > 
> > levitte> In message
> > <1e19cdfea8224717b3eee11e2d8ac...@usma1ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com> on
> > Wed, 11 Jan 2017 03:13:39 +0000, "Salz, Rich" <rs...@akamai.com> said:
> > levitte>
> > levitte> rsalz> The needs for OpenSSL's LHASH are exactly what SipHash was
> > designed for: fast on short strings. levitte> rsalz> OpenSSL's hash
> > currently *does not* call MD5 or SHA1; the MD5 code is commented out.
> > levitte> rsalz> Yes, performance tests would greatly inform the decision.
> > levitte>
> > levitte> Done, using the reference siphash implementation.
> > levitte>
> > levitte> https://github.com/levitte/openssl/tree/test-string-hashes
> > levitte>
> > levitte> A run on my laptop gave these results:
> > levitte>
> > levitte>     : ; ./util/shlib_wrap.sh apps/openssl speed siphash lhash
> > levitte>     Doing lhash for 3s on 16 size blocks: 27635188 lhash's in
> > 3.00s levitte>     Doing lhash for 3s on 64 size blocks: 6934726 lhash's
> > in 3.00s levitte>     Doing lhash for 3s on 256 size blocks: 1698489
> > lhash's in 3.00s levitte>     Doing lhash for 3s on 1024 size blocks:
> > 431185 lhash's in 3.00s levitte>     Doing lhash for 3s on 8192 size
> > blocks: 53868 lhash's in 3.00s levitte>     Doing lhash for 3s on 16384
> > size blocks: 27041 lhash's in 3.00s levitte>     Doing siphash for 3s on
> > 16 size blocks: 22488748 siphash's in 3.00s levitte>     Doing siphash
> > for 3s on 64 size blocks: 10485674 siphash's in 3.00s levitte>     Doing
> > siphash for 3s on 256 size blocks: 3320898 siphash's in 3.00s levitte>   
> >  Doing siphash for 3s on 1024 size blocks: 894647 siphash's in 3.00s
> > levitte>     Doing siphash for 3s on 8192 size blocks: 114170 siphash's
> > in 3.00s levitte>     Doing siphash for 3s on 16384 size blocks: 57151
> > siphash's in 3.00s levitte>     OpenSSL 1.1.1-dev  xx XXX xxxx
> > levitte>     built on: reproducible build, date unspecified
> > levitte>     options:bn(64,64) rc4(16x,int) des(int) aes(partial)
> > idea(int) blowfish(ptr) levitte>     compiler: gcc -DDSO_DLFCN
> > -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -DOPENSSL_THREADS -DOPENSSL_NO_STATIC_ENGINE -DOPENSSL_PIC
> > -DOPENSSL_IA32_SSE2 -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_MONT -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_MONT5
> > -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_GF2m -DSHA1_ASM -DSHA256_ASM -DSHA512_ASM -DRC4_ASM
> > -DMD5_ASM -DAES_ASM -DVPAES_ASM -DBSAES_ASM -DGHASH_ASM
> > -DECP_NISTZ256_ASM -DPADLOCK_ASM -DPOLY1305_ASM
> > -DOPENSSLDIR="\"/usr/local/ssl\""
> > -DENGINESDIR="\"/usr/local/lib/engines-1.1\""  -DDEBUG_UNUSED -Wswitch
> > -DPEDANTIC -pedantic -Wno-long-long -Wall -Wsign-compare
> > -Wmissing-prototypes -Wshadow -Wformat -Wtype-limits -Werror
> > -Wa,--noexecstack levitte>     The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per
> > second processed. levitte>     type             16 bytes     64 bytes   
> > 256 bytes   1024 bytes   8192 bytes  16384 bytes levitte>     lhash      
> >     147387.67k   147940.82k   144937.73k   147177.81k   147095.55k  
> > 147679.91k levitte>     siphash         119939.99k   223694.38k  
> > 283383.30k   305372.84k   311760.21k   312120.66k levitte>
> > levitte> So it seems that for short strings, OPENSSL_LH_strhash (*) wins
> > some, levitte> while siphash wins big for larger strings.
> > levitte>
> > levitte> I have no idea how they compare with regard to distribution
> > (which, levitte> considering I ask for the same size output from both,
> > should be the levitte> main factor that affects the sensitivity to hash
> > flooding)... levitte>
> > levitte> Our use of OPENSSL_LH_strhash() is with configuration sections
> > and
> > levitte> names, ASN.1 object names and the function names in the openssl
> > app. levitte> All our other uses of lhash use their own hashing
> > functions, and are levitte> usually very short still (definitely less
> > than 16 bytes). levitte>
> > levitte> My conclusion is that performance-wise, siphash doesn't give us
> > any levitte> advantage over OpenSSL_LH_strhash for our uses.
> > levitte>
> > levitte> Cheers,
> > levitte> Richard
> > levitte>
> > levitte> (*) Strictly speaking, it's a modified version that takes a
> > length and levitte> tolerates all 8-bit bytes, including 0x00.
> > levitte>
> > levitte> --
> > levitte> Richard Levitte         levi...@openssl.org
> > levitte> OpenSSL Project         http://www.openssl.org/~levitte/
> > levitte> --
> > levitte> openssl-dev mailing list
> > levitte> To unsubscribe:
> > https://mta.openssl.org/mailman/listinfo/openssl-dev levitte>


-- 
Regards,
Hubert Kario
Senior Quality Engineer, QE BaseOS Security team
Web: www.cz.redhat.com
Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purky┼łova 99/71, 612 45, Brno, Czech Republic

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